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  1. #1
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    Nov 2015
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    Thumbs down Shoplifting During a Period of Mental Haze

    My question involves criminal law for the state of: Georgia

    I know I've been doing increasingly weird things. I know my kids have been talking about it & my husband denies it when I tell him I feel like I'm going crazy, but I'm sure he wonders. It inevitably gets worse when I'm unable to sleep, & I've been going through yet another bout of brain-numbing insomnia for the last month or so. But yesterday something finally happened that makes me think I can no longer go out in public alone and also I don't trust myself at any other time any more either.

    This is me writing on & on, but the main part's explained in the 1st few paragraphs. The main thing is, I would say I must be guilty, so there's that. But besides that, I didn't intend to shoplift and really am one of those people who have never stolen a thing in their lives before this happened. I don't expect anyone to believe that, but it's part of my story & who I am. I was reading this little, short "Asset Protection Recovery" page they gave me, & wondered if anyone knows if it would do any good for me to write to somebody at Walmart and apologize? Not try to tell them everything here, but just apologize, tell them I really didn't intend to steal something and leave it at that?

    The story is: I was home alone, again trying to write what's needed for a federal workers' comp appeal, which I've been trying to do for weeks now, but it keeps getting harder all the time because I also suffer from depression, anxiety and sometimes panic from PTSD, and it's been getting more difficult to focus, especially when dealing with all that other baloney. I got it in my head for some unknown reason to take a break and drive up to a Walmart; one I never shop at. Especially not at this one because it's so far away, but of all places, a Walmart which just happened to have a quilt the perfect neutral color & one I couldn't find anywhere else, even at good department stores, and couldn't even find in the right size at other nearby Walmarts. I'd been looking for one like it for over a year. There was no rhyme nor reason for my sudden desire to go find that quilt. Maybe that was the first evidence that an insanity episode was on the way?

    Because I'm sure that anyone reading this, especially attorneys, will have no patience nor be interested in the rest of the details leading up to my little break with logic, I'll put all I wrote about that at the bottom. Suffice it here to just say that in the end, probably about an hour later, I simply grabbed whatever looked like it might charge my phone the quickest, pulled the packaging off in a hysterical rush as I headed for the door &... just before reaching it, was grabbed by the wrist by the large and strong hand of (probably) a security guard (female), & then the rest was just the usual store detention I've read about here, about being taken to a room for a while, and all that dreaded stuff. They asked for all my information, I gave it, they gave me a pre-written letter, saying things like, "...this incident may have implications beyond criminal charges," and, "...[this notification] is not a release from criminal prosecution..." So now I'm also dreading what else is coming.

    I don't know what I was thinking, what I was doing, why I did it, where my brains had disappeared to nor did I even have a concept of such a thing as "shoplifting" while it was happening. I probably had that woman right by or behind me the entire time, but was oblivious of anyone, wasn't even attempting to conceal it. All I could focus on was "call him, call him, call him before he drives all the way here! I can't believe this is happening, what is going on, how did this happen?" over and over. My intent was not to steal anything. I guess I thought I was "borrowing" it, but brother. That sounds idiotic even to myself.

    Those are the basics. The rest is just rambling on. I'm now living in dread that I'll be labeled a thief and have a criminal record, at the age of 61, when my intent in life was many things, but never criminal.

    So, for the first time in my entire life, including as a child, I had been about to steal something, being unaware of the significance of what I was doing. All I wanted to do at the point I was "nabbed" was to pay for it, but they said it was "evidence," and that if I wanted one I could go get another one and buy it. But, as I kept begging them to please let me call my husband (while in their office), they went ahead and plugged the thing into the wall and charged my phone up right there! If I'd known that was possible, I would have done that myself back in electronics, and then left the blasted thing there. I didn't want to keep it! I just wanted, desperately, to reach my husband and tell him the car wasn't stolen after all, he didn't have to drive up there and so on. More than anything, I was frantic about him for a number of other reasons, which I won't drag this out any more by going into. And it had taken so long to do everything leading up to that point, I just lost all sense of reason. I was crazy. I think I am crazy. Maybe, all the time now. OWCP has finally done what they've been working at all these years. This event proves it. Now I myself can't believe all this happened. I don't understand why I did it, it makes no sense, I can think of all kinds of things I could have and should have done besides the idiotic things I did do, but in the same situation again with the same pain & the same craziness happening before it, I'd probably do the same or another equally crazy thing. Hopefully not criminal, but who knows!? I no longer trust myself. I'm sick at heart about this.

    I started this intending to ask if insanity was possibly a defense? At the same time certain people are making it their business to drive me crazy, certain others are lovingly attempting to convince me I'm not, & even more of the law community variety would probably never accept that things like what happened would be enough to send someone over the edge of logic to doing something criminal, that made no sense, or at least that she was unaware that she was doing something wrong. So, I guess I answered my own question, huh? Still, if you have any hope or advice for me, I'd appreciate it. And thanks.

    The rest of the long saga:
    So I navigate my way up to this distant Walmart easily enough, but haven't taken my pain meds, because I don't like to drive after I've taken them. I have 2 chronic and hardline pain conditions, & was hurting pretty badly by the time I got there, so went in, found what I wanted and got out as quickly as possible, except... I went to the normally fast self-check lane, and the card reader just wouldn't work. I tried it again and again, and finally called to the clerk who was helping the area. She kind of nodded to me, but was already helping someone else, so I waited. Then, I saw she had gone to another customer and stood there laughing and gabbing with him as I stood waiting for her then, too, for almost 5 minutes. I thought at least I'd be next after him, right? But no, she instead moved on to another customer, and that customer also took a lot of time being helped, when all I needed was less than 30 seconds of her time to be able to sign the already carded items, get the receipt and leave. So then, since I'm admittedly not much of a patient & sweet person at all, to my own shame, I went over, irritated, and started carping at her that I needed only a few seconds of her time, so why was she instead going around to every other customer, including those who had arrived after me, and having gab-fests while making me stand there waiting? All of which (naturally) made some of these women she was so gladly helping turn hostile toward me. All of that is just to set up the situation, which is something I'm sure most people would handle with calm and understanding, but (again to my own shame) not me, by golly. Especially when I'm HURTING like that, & it just LOOKS like she's doing it on purpose; I was upset and letting her know it, although in reality I wouldn't have bothered taking the time to complain to a manager, as I threatened. Finally she did whatever needed to be done for me, & sure enough it took less than 30 seconds to complete it all. I signed her receipt with an angrily dashed-off line, grabbed my own receipt and left in a pain-hazed huff.

    I get to the parking lot, holding onto my purchases and go straight to where I'd parked my car. It had been right outside the door, and I had looked to see if there was another door when parking, and none were in view. It looked exactly like where I'd parked! I walked in circles for a few minutes, then called my husband in a panic. I told him it looked like the car was stolen, I couldn't handle something like this alone and asked him to, please, come up to help me! (My intention originally had been to be home before he was.) Then, calling 911, I again did the best I could explaining that I thought my car was stolen, hyperventilating the entire time, completely unable to believe this could be happening and not wanting to return to the store to face that clerk I'd been so snippy with. It woulda made her day, ha ha. I was ... unable to think! Period. At that moment I noticed my phone was almost dead.

    You might have already guessed this part, but soon, in the distance of the huge parking lot, somehow invisible to me before, I realized there was another door after all. And frantically running there (still in growing pain), I was explaining all of this to the woman on 911, then apologizing for my stupidity and beginning to cry, and blah blah blah, the whole pathetic, little old lady (who can still run) scenario. And thinking that now I have to add: "pathetic, CRAZY little old lady" to it.

    Finally in my car, which I had moved by the door to be visible in case my husband showed up, (& relieved that it had all been only my stupidity), I went to call my husband to not come up after all, as it was a really long drive for him & I wasn't sure if he'd even left yet, so I needed to hurry and do it. But, the phone was dead! It had clearly showed that it still had 5% when I'd hung up from 911, but now it was dead. Our good car charger had broken a few weeks earlier, & my husband had bought some off brand one that never seemed to work very well, but I plugged it in & waited impatiently for a few minutes for just enough power to call him. But, it would not charge. Apparently, it'll slowly charge phones when they've already got power, but once they're dead, it's useless. After, (again), my panic began growing when the phone continued refusing to charge up, (& I couldn't even leave, because what if my husband showed up wondering where I was?), I became desperate enough to begin asking people as they were going to their cars if they happened to have a phone charger I could borrow for just a few minutes? No go. I 'spose my craziness was showing by that time, even though people were still smiling tolerantly at me. Finally, a young man said, "just go back to electronics and use one of theirs."

    Uh, yeah. Good idea. I hurriedly reparked the car, grabbed the dead phone and ran back to the electronics section. But there was another long line at the counter, nobody in sight to ask for help, and I was hyperventilating again. I found the charger aisle (that alone took all I had, I was so loopy & frantic by that time); tried to find a charger I could plug in, in the store; scrambled around looking for one but couldn't find one; saw a car charger that would fit, and grabbed it instead, heading immediately back toward my car with one thing in mind. As I zoomed past various registers, all I saw were long lines and all I visualized was the long mess-up that had just happened at the self-serve register, probably taking longer than the lines would've taken, and I felt so panicked about reaching my husband that I frantically tore the packaging off instead. I never once considered that I was "stealing" it. I'm not sure what I thought, but the idea of stealing wasn't involved. Just before I reached the door, I felt someone grabbing my wrists.

    To tell you the truth, I wasn't really thinking about what I was going to do once I got the phone charged. What probably would have happened (had I made it that far) is that I would have realized what I'd done, been mortified and snuck back into the store in an attempt to replace it. In fact, now that I think about it, there've been a number of times over the years that I've thoughtlessly walked out of a store holding on to an unpaid for item. As soon as I realize it, (in surprise), I've always gone back to return it. Maybe a few times I paid for it, if it was something I had intended to buy. The idea of just keeping it unpaid for didn't occur to me. Nobody ever stopped me, accused me of shoplifting or even noticed what I'd done, except myself. I wouldn't think of stealing anything anyway, and even if I had done the above, (walking out, inadvertently forgetting I had an unpaid-for item in my hand) it would never have occurred to me to not return it immediately. In other words... I'm not a thief. Never have been, never wanted to be. However, I may as well be now. And most certainly, if this is a thing that could happen again in one of these weird states of mind, there's no reason for me to go anywhere by myself any longer.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
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    Default Re: Didn't "Mean To", but Did Shoplift

    Ma'am, I honestly think that you need a psychiatric/neurological evaluation.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,340

    Default Re: Didn't "Mean To", but Did Shoplift

    Lady, all I read was:

    "Didn't "Mean To""

    And I'm calling BS on it. You ARE a thief. You stole. You committed a crime. Own it.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    8,238

    Default The short version of it

    Your very long post really comes down to this: you went to a store you were unfamiliar with, you had bad interaction with a store clerk that made you angry and evidently abrasive with the clerk, then went out a different door than you came in and thought your car stolen. Your phone was nearly dead, you were upset by that, and your cell phone was dead after calling 911. You wanted to call your husband, needed a charger to charge up the phone, and so went back in the store, grabbed a charger, took it out of the packaging and went for the door where you were caught by store security. You claim to not have been in the right frame of mind at the time you started this little adventure and the stress of the events that followed added to it.

    Now to the legal issues. Your version of events supports that you committed the theft. You took the charger, tore off the packaging and went for the door without paying for it. One of your questions was whether insanity might be a defense to that charge. In Georgia, an insanity defense is possible, but it will not be easy. In order to succeed in that defense, you must prove to the jury that at the time of the act constituting the crime, you did not have mental capacity to distinguish between right and wrong in relation to such act, omission, or negligence. GA Code § 16-3-2. Your own version of events suggests you knew right from wrong but were simply acting out some feeling of panic. That may not be good enough, but you may wish to consult a criminal defense attorney in your area about that. You’ll need to find an expert who will testify that you were so badly affected that you could not tell right from wrong at the time you took the charger. That kind of defense is expensive to pursue. It is also not very often effective. Juries are highly skeptical of insanity claims to start with, so you have a lot to overcome. Be aware under the GA statutes that if your insanity defense succeeds you get committed to mental hospital until they say your insanity is gone. That could be worse than simply taking a conviction on a simple shoplifting charge. That's something to discuss with your lawyer. I think, though, that just from what you have said here, the insanity defense is very unlikely to be useful for you. I don’t have all the facts, though, and you need to discuss it with a local attorney who does have all the facts.

    Regardless of how you proceed with the criminal case it clearly sounds like you need to seek some mental health treatment or counseling.

  5. #5
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    Nov 2015
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    3

    Default Re: Didn't "Mean To", but Did Shoplift

    Oh, believe me, I'm owning it alright. I'm heartsick and ashamed of myself and after all my life, I am now a criminal.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Thank you Taxing Matters, for you indepth response. I don't know if I want to do anything at this point except plead guilty and accept the consequences. After that I think I will stop going anywhere by myself. I've known I needed counseling for a long time and have not been able to find someone who knew how to figure my disorders out. I have asperger's syndrome, but have been functioning with it since childhood. Somehow it seems I'm outgrowing my ability to cope in the normal world the older I get. So maybe some people would think I belong in an institution, but there is no cure for asperger's and it would only worsen my depression and PTSD. So anyway, thank you again.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Also, you are an incredible "listener". You summed it up very well. The only thing is that I had called my husband before 911, and he was frantically on his way to come help. So when I found the car, I was equally frantic to call & tell him not to come. And... all that jazz.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2014
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    441

    Default Re: Didn't "Mean To", but Did Shoplift

    Stop whining about PTSD. The judge and prosecutor don't want to hear it anymore than anyone here.

    If you are serious about wanting to plead guilty and just get this behind you, repeat after me: "I made a very stupid decision that is out of character for me, but none the less was freely made. Can I get some sort of diversion or plead guilty to lesser charges?"

  7. #7
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    Jan 2015
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    Default Re: Didn't "Mean To", but Did Shoplift

    And get the counselor. Don't give us the baloney about how you "couldn't find one who would understand or figure me out." Yes you could. They are out there. Your condition is telling you, via your thoughts that no one will understand and no one will be able to help you. This is not true. Do not believe everything you think particularly when you are feeling like this.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2015
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    Default Re: Didn't "Mean To", but Did Shoplift

    BooRennie, do you know of or have advice about how to go about finding somebody good to do a neurological evaluation? That sounds like something worth looking into, besides, in spite of, regardless of the criminal act I committed. I thought with age my symptoms would mellow (or even lessen), not grow into inevitable times of bizarre behavior, with no idea when they might happen or what crazy thing I might do next. I gave up on psychology years ago, but a neurological evaluation might reveal things I've been unaware of, and maybe there would be some kind of help available. Thank you.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Even some of the counselors themselves have told me, "I don't feel qualified to treat your problems." I'm not whining about them, especially the PTSD. I've been coping with that for most of a lifetime. And, for the most part, successfully. Or at least I've managed to pretend to be as "normal" as the world around me. What happened at age 16 somehow gained a place of great authority and power over any reasonable controls in my already asperger's addled brain. But despite one failure after another, I still kept trying to find counselors for many years to please, somebody, please help me. There was one. She was the first, at age 22. She was also the best and able to reach the places previously unattainable to me. And she cared enough to keep working to help me. Then suddenly she died. So, so it goes.

    I know there's somebody out there who could help. I even have the name of someone near where I live whom I'm certain is more knowledgeable about my conditions than possibly anyone else in the country. But I've had zero success at getting into see her. She's too well-known, etc. She has a staff working with her, & I think one of them would be sufficient. But I've been unable to get any of them to return my calls either.

    This has all been going on for months, long before my new criminal behavior reared its head a few days ago. Don't think I haven't been aware and terrified of my mental deterioration. I just never considered I would think of doing something so bizarre, that's all.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Shoplifting During a Period of Mental Haze

    Your PC or a neurologist can order a mental eval by a psychologist. That said, it does not seem it will serve any purpose in your case.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Shoplifting During a Period of Mental Haze

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
    View Post
    That said, it does not seem it will serve any purpose in your case.
    Perhaps we *do* have to worry about the mental health of those who seem so intent on hanging onto *anything* but responsibility. I wonder if the AMA would recognize it as an actual treatable condition? Then we'd come full circle and everybody would be happy.

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