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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    My question involves bankruptcy in the state of: Texas

    That is where the company is based out of. This company sold precious metal bullion and allowed users to store the metal free of charge. I assumed this was paid for by the marketplace they created for their customer base where they could buy/sell their stored bullion for a small fee. At any time one could request a product draw.

    So I purchased 1 oz of gold and 100 oz of silver in January of this year. I had over time bought 250 oz of silver a few years prior and had no issues getting it shipped. Well in July I received an email indicating they were going through bankruptcy. So I decided to initiate a product draw. I had paid for this 6+ months prior in full.

    It's November, nothing. Received a few emails over time to file a claim. I did so, as a secured creditor. I'm not sure if that is my proper categorization but it seemed the most fitting as I purchased product and don't have it. I submitted printouts of my orders and the results of an online transaction search of my bank accounts with filters that limited the results to my two transactions with the company as supporting documentation.

    This normal? Paying for something and not getting anything? What is the most likely outcome? Receive some fraction of the value of what I bought? I don't understand how I'm even a creditor if I purchased product.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,279

    Default Just speculating here -

    More than likely, the company sold people metals they did not possess while offering to store it for them. In doing so they were either hoping not enough people would ask to have their metals shipped at any one time so the fraud wouldn't be discovered, or that they could purchase sufficient metals to cover the purchases at a later date when the market dropped and make even more money.

    Sounds like too many people wanted their gold or silver shipped at the same time and they got caught. Now they are filing for bankruptcy and whatever assets they have left will be divided proportionately among those people they owe money to.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    Odds are that your contract with this company gives you no actual ownership interest in the precious metals you have 'purchased' -- you would normally need documents identifying the bars you own by serial number, held in an account allocated to you by a bullion bank. All you can really do is hope that there are enough assets to allow you to recover all or at least some of your money after the creditors with priority make their claims (and the legal fees and court costs are paid).

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Just speculating here -

    Quote Quoting L-1
    View Post
    More than likely, the company sold people metals they did not possess while offering to store it for them. In doing so they were either hoping not enough people...
    Modern day "Money as Debt" moment, it sounds like.

    Love it when I throw away money. :/

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Odds are that your contract with this company gives you no actual ownership interest in the precious metals you have 'purchased'...
    Did some looking:

    6.7 When Title to Products Passes to Customer. Title to the Products purchased by Customer shall pass to Customer upon delivery to Customer or Customer's appointed agent or designee. Products that have been delivered to BullionDirect®?s storage facility for Customer will be held in safekeeping on a fungible basis and Customer will receive title to an undivided share of the Products so held. Notwithstanding the passage of title to Customer, BullionDirect® may use such Products, in fungible form, held for Customer. Customer understands that such usage of the Products in this form may result in gains or losses, which will inure solely to the benefit of BullionDirect®.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    In your case, fungible sounds like it will be a loss

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    478

    Default Re: How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    Have you heard of "Bernie Madoff"? Sounds like just another Ponzi scheme. Don't think you are going to get anything out of this. . .

    http://www.mystatesman.com/news/news...rns-up-/nnYS2/

    I will review the bk docket and let you know if I see anything "hopeful" but I doubt it.

    Des.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Here is some info you may need. . .

    Chapter 11 Case Number 15-10940

    Filed on July 20, 2015 in the Western District of Texas

    Last date to file a Proof of Claim: January 25, 2016 (very important - you need to file a timely claim!!!!!!!)

    Unsecured Creditor’s Committee consists of three creditors. The Committee is represented by Jesse Moore of Dykema, Cox, Smith. The contact info is:

    Phone number: 512-703-6325
    email: jmoore@dykema.com

    Personally, I believe the Chapter 11 will fail and the case will be converted to a Chapter 7 - but that will take a long time and is not a desired outcome. If the debtor successfully reorganizes under Chapter 11 creditors may actually get paid. If you contact Jesse Moore make sure you ask that the “absolute priority rule” be strictly enforced. Google the term for more info.

    Lastly, if you want to keep track of what is going on then sign up for a PACER account at www.pacer.gov.

    Wishing you the best of luck in whatever you decide to do.

    Des.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    401

    Default Re: How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    http://about.ag/BullionDirect.htm

    http://forums.bulliondealerdata.com/

    Good luck but I think your money is long gone. Storage? If you don't hold it, you don't own it.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    478

    Default Re: How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    I like this web site despite some of its technical inaccuracies. However, since the originator appears not to be a bk attny I will not criticize. In general, it contains good info and saves one a few bucks if one wishes to view some of the pleadings without a PACER account.

    Des.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: How to Recover Products You Have Paid For from a Bankrupt Company

    Thank you Des. Much appreciated. That is the company. Guess I might have to refile. I thought paying for product meant it was a collateral of sorts. I'll straighten everything out.

    Ponzi scheme?!?!? Lol, the whole world is involved in the biggest ponzi scheme ever. No one thinks of it that way though. Just the way things are I guess.

    About.ag. Nice site. Thanks.

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