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  1. #41
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    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting throwaway64759
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    My instinct is that there would need to be proof of racial injustice in order for it to hold. Evidence would be lacking for the other side. There may be paperwork missing on our end internally, but fact of the matter is that you don't really need a reason to fire somebody in a company. You can basically just do it if they don't fit. Who cares if they're a minority? Still have to get along.

    I do not know of any legal ramifications of firing somebody because they don't fit the mold. So in order to go against that, the person making the accusation would have to prove that there were racial tensions - whether that be through eyewitness account or correspondence. Chances are they don't have any form of proof to push their case.
    You really, really, need to see an employment law attorney. You don’t understand the law here, and evidently neither does anyone else in your management and that lack of knowledge is going to hurt you and your company. You seem to think that the employee has to prove that there were “racial tensions” or that the employee needs some kind evidence of overt racism, e.g. a memo saying “Fire John because he’s Black.” Of course those things would help make a great case against the company, they are not required for the employee to win. All the employee has to do is show that he was treated differently than similarly situated employees of another race to set up a prima facie case for illegal race discrimination. You’ve already said that occurred, and the employee likely won’t have much trouble getting proof of that in discovery. The company then has to show that its actions were motivated by something other than race. This is why solid documentation by the company, documentation your company seems to lack, is so important. Imagine the employee showing in court that he was treated differently than the white employees and asserting that shows that race was the motivating factor behind the termination. The company comes back and says “we fired him because he just didn’t fit our mold” as its defense. May as well get ready to write a large check to the employee when the trial is done. If you don’t think a jury wouldn’t read between the lines and figure out that what the company meant was “we fired him because he didn't fit our mold because we are white and he is black” then you’re seriously burying your head in the sand.

    Let me see if I can make this clear for you. The employee doesn't have to show the company managers were racists to win. The employee doesn’t have to show that the manager’s express reason for firing him was race. Those help, but aren’t necessary. All the employee has to do is show that the company treated him differently because of race. And if you treat the one black guy differently than all the white guys and don’t have a good explanation other than race to explain the different treatment, a jury may conclude that race was the reason. In short, a lame or clearly made up reason won’t get the company in the clear.

  2. #42
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
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    1,421

    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting throwaway64759
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    Not so sure. Never heard the higher-up say anything racist. It was a personality conflict with one individual who happened to be the only non-white in the department.
    Why are you willing to defend the higher up? Unless you are the higher up and are looking for a way out of this. The higher up needs to go for acting immaturely and not being a strong leader. Oh and let me just state that after reading everything, you do seem like the higher up that fired this employee. You figure by casting blame on HR you can deflect from the actions that on their face are racist.

  3. #43
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    Dec 2009
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    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting Ohiogal
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    Why are you willing to defend the higher up?
    I have had the benefit of coming late into this thread + the other one, and have thus been able to read all the posts in one go...and most definitely, the OP is the "higher-up" in this scenario.

  4. #44
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    Nov 2013
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    in alto mare
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    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    My opinion isn't worth a plugged nickel, but I agree with the others. This is the OP and he (or she) is playing CYA. Too late.

    I hope the company wises up and lets this person go. Very toxic.

  5. #45
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    24,209

    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    For some reason this OP seems unable to grasp that when you have three employees involved in the same incident, two of them were retained and one of them was fired, and the one who was fired is the only minority, the fired employee has an excellent "proof of racial injustice" right there.

  6. #46
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Somewhere near Canada
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    35,894

    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting throwaway64759
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    My instinct is that there would need to be proof of racial injustice in order for it to hold. Evidence would be lacking for the other side. There may be paperwork missing on our end internally, but fact of the matter is that you don't really need a reason to fire somebody in a company. You can basically just do it if they don't fit. Who cares if they're a minority? Still have to get along.

    I do not know of any legal ramifications of firing somebody because they don't fit the mold. So in order to go against that, the person making the accusation would have to prove that there were racial tensions - whether that be through eyewitness account or correspondence. Chances are they don't have any form of proof to push their case.

    Could you please explain why you think you know better than the numerous experts on this thread? You don't seem to be grasping even the most basic concepts.

    I have to wonder, too, if you're not actually the "guilty" party.

    Scratch that. I'm pretty certain you're the "guilty" party.

  7. #47

    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    The minority employee was dismissed not because of insubordination, but due to performance issues. This is why he was subject to the mid-year performance evaluation and later dismissed.

    If his two white coworkers had also showed performance issues, they too would have been given a mid-year performance evaluation and subsequently dismissed.

    If the minority employee happened to be white and showed performance issues, then he too would have been given a mid-year performance evaluation and subsequently dismissed.

    So what evidence is there of racial discrimination?

  8. #48
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    in alto mare
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    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting throwaway64759
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    My instinct is that there would need to be proof of racial injustice in order for it to hold.
    Your "instincts" are way off. You need a calibration. Don't worry; it's coming.

  9. #49
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    7,784

    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting throwaway64759
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    The minority employee was dismissed not because of insubordination, but due to performance issues. This is why he was subject to the mid-year performance evaluation and later dismissed.

    If his two white coworkers had also showed performance issues, they too would have been given a mid-year performance evaluation and subsequently dismissed.

    If the minority employee happened to be white and showed performance issues, then he too would have been given a mid-year performance evaluation and subsequently dismissed.

    So what evidence is there of racial discrimination?
    But that's not the whole story. The higher up, and I'm inclined to agree with others that that is you, wanted him gone after 3 people were insubordinate to him but for some reason didn't want to get rid of the other insubordinate parties. Parties who were white. He then set out to make that happen by trumping up a disclipinary/review process that NO OTHER employees were or ever were subject to and got rid of him. There had been no other complaints regarding this employee's performance prior to this and by your own admission, he got good reviews prior.

    Whether or not the higher up is a racist piece of crap or not, that is what this looks like and what a court could very well conclude if your company is sued.

    You just don't get it and you aren't. You can keep trying to spin a story you think will work and we'll keep telling you...you are wrong.

  10. #50
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Termination of Protected Class Employee in At-Will State

    Quote Quoting throwaway64759
    View Post
    The minority employee was dismissed not because of insubordination, but due to performance issues. This is why he was subject to the mid-year performance evaluation and later dismissed.

    If his two white coworkers had also showed performance issues, they too would have been given a mid-year performance evaluation and subsequently dismissed.

    If the minority employee happened to be white and showed performance issues, then he too would have been given a mid-year performance evaluation and subsequently dismissed.

    So what evidence is there of racial discrimination?
    dude, there is simply no help for you. Everything you have posted screams discrimination....and that is only what you posted. If there is an EEOC investigation or law suit, they are going to tear you apart. You screwed up. If you, I mean the higher up, isn't fired for this the company deserves all the punishment it will get.

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