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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    104

    Angry Unemployment Appeal Denied Despite Having Been Asked to Resign

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: New Jersey

    I was recently lost my appeal to the decision of UI determination. Now in the letter that i was told that the as per N.J.S.A 43:21-5 the burden of showing good cause is on the claimant and the test is whether was "cause sufficient to justify an employee's voluntarily leaving the ranks of the employed and joining the ranks of the unemployed."

    Here is the story - I was told by employer to resign my job (yes my boss admitted during the appeal hearing that he asked me to resign) because i tried to solve my schedule problems that i was facing while i am in college. The employer kept on asking me to work extra hours or even stay past my scheduled shift and due to this reason i use to get late to college even not make to my classes some days. In the appeal i mentioned that i was always in impression that i had to work my scheduled shift and employer cannot force me to stay my past scheduled shift if i don't want to and there were times that i had no choice when i was working in office by myself and no one would come relieve me on-time. Since company wanted to run office 24/7 they should accommodate more staff instead of asking people working over time. Now some rewind (in nov 2014) there was a reduction in force in our office and company got rid of 35 employees and kept only 6 of them. I was one among 6 of them. The challenge was that the company still wanted to run office 24/7 and make us work like animals. The work that was done by 35 employees was strictly to be covered by the six employees that were left in office. Now in feb 2014 one of the employee went for sick leave and took 2 months. During that time i was forced to work extra hours and even come to work after my college hours. I approached HR and my boss 4 times asking if they could resolve this problem because the amount of work vs the no. of employees is (too much vs less employees) and i cannot work extra hours as i have college. Company was completely aware of my enrollment in college and yet they could not resolve any problem. I was told that there will be a shift bid soon and then they will hire more employees which never happened for 2 months. During that time my performance in college was affected and i approached my boss again. I asked him if i can apply for educational leave but HR department said that since i was non-union employee i do not get any such option. Then i approached my boss again and this is when he sat with me asking what are my expenses (college bills, rent bills, and even insurance) and he tried to point me that if i have saved some money then i should use it towards my expense unfortunately he cannot do more than that and only option he has for me is to ask me resign from job. Now i am fighting for my unemployment as i resigned due to schedule problems and employer is fighting that i should not get my UI. I would appreciate if someone could advice.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Quote Quoting jon84dwk
    View Post
    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: New Jersey

    I was recently lost my appeal to the decision of UI determination. Now in the letter that i was told that the as per N.J.S.A 43:21-5 the burden of showing good cause is on the claimant and the test is whether was "cause sufficient to justify an employee's voluntarily leaving the ranks of the employed and joining the ranks of the unemployed."

    Here is the story - I was told by employer to resign my job (yes my boss admitted during the appeal hearing that he asked me to resign) because i tried to solve my schedule problems that i was facing while i am in college. The employer kept on asking me to work extra hours or even stay past my scheduled shift and due to this reason i use to get late to college even not make to my classes some days. In the appeal i mentioned that i was always in impression that i had to work my scheduled shift and employer cannot force me to stay my past scheduled shift if i don't want to
    Wrong.

    Quote Quoting jon84dwk
    View Post
    and there were times that i had no choice when i was working in office by myself and no one would come relieve me on-time. Since company wanted to run office 24/7 they should accommodate more staff instead of asking people working over time.
    Wrong again.

    Quote Quoting jon84dwk
    View Post
    Now some rewind (in nov 2014) there was a reduction in force in our office and company got rid of 35 employees and kept only 6 of them. I was one among 6 of them. The challenge was that the company still wanted to run office 24/7 and make us work like animals. The work that was done by 35 employees was strictly to be covered by the six employees that were left in office. Now in feb 2014 one of the employee went for sick leave and took 2 months. During that time i was forced to work extra hours and even come to work after my college hours. I approached HR and my boss 4 times asking if they could resolve this problem because the amount of work vs the no. of employees is (too much vs less employees) and i cannot work extra hours as i have college. Company was completely aware of my enrollment in college and yet they could not resolve any problem.
    Your employer has no obligation to resolve YOUR problem. It's not his problem.

    Quote Quoting jon84dwk
    View Post
    I was told that there will be a shift bid soon and then they will hire more employees which never happened for 2 months. During that time my performance in college was affected and i approached my boss again. I asked him if i can apply for educational leave but HR department said that since i was non-union employee i do not get any such option. Then i approached my boss again and this is when he sat with me asking what are my expenses (college bills, rent bills, and even insurance) and he tried to point me that if i have saved some money then i should use it towards my expense unfortunately he cannot do more than that and only option he has for me is to ask me resign from job. Now i am fighting for my unemployment as i resigned due to schedule problems and employer is fighting that i should not get my UI. I would appreciate if someone could advice.
    There's probably another level of appeal.

    But, basically, you were told that if you couldn't handle the requirements of the job you were free to resign, and you did. Your reason for resigning is not "good cause" under the UI law and therefore you were disqualified for benefits.

    Frankly, you should have been looking for another job a long time ago.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
    35,894

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Your boss confirmed that he asked you to resign, and you were still denied correct? And this was the appeal itself?

    (Scheduling is not their problem, as was pointed out - they owe you no duty to cater to your needs)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,521

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Your "impression" is absolutely incorrect. Mandatory overtime is legal in all 50 states. Your employer can require you to work past your scheduled shift every single day and as long as you are paid properly it would violate no laws or protected rights, and you could quite legally be fired for refusing.

    Your college classes are your problem, not your employer's. He has no obligation whatsoever to accommodate your classes.

    I tend to think that your claim was denied, despite your employer acknowledging that you were asked to resign, because unwillingness to work the schedule your boss wants you to work is not a valid reason to collect unemployment. Not to mention the fact that your classes would be interfering with the job search you are required to be making in order to collect.

    Commentator, do you concur?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,360

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    You used the wrong approach. Your whole story looks like you quit to "go to school," and that's disqualifying.

    However, if you had a 40 hour per week job, and the layoffs caused you to have to work 60 hrs/wk, and you complained about the long hours, and quit when the employer refused to a more prevailing schedule, then that would have made for a good cause quit.

    Your boss asking you to resign isn't enough. For that to work, he has to say, "if you don't quit, we're going to fire you," and even then I wouldn't take the bait because it's hard to prove.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
    Posts
    35,894

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Quote Quoting chyvan
    View Post
    You used the wrong approach. Your whole story looks like you quit to "go to school," and that's disqualifying.

    However, if you had a 40 hour per week job, and the layoffs caused you to have to work 60 hrs/wk, and you complained about the long hours, and quit when the employer refused to a more prevailing schedule, then that would have made for a good cause quit.

    Your boss asking you to resign isn't enough. For that to work, he has to say, "if you don't quit, we're going to fire you," and even then I wouldn't take the bait because it's hard to prove.
    Doesn't seem as if the boss is having too much trouble, now does it?

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    1,142

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    "However, if you had a 40 hour per week job, and the layoffs caused you to have to work 60 hrs/wk, and you complained about the long hours, and quit when the employer refused to a more prevailing schedule, then that would have made for a good cause quit.

    If you had complained about the long hours and then quit when the employer refused to give you a "more prevailing schedule" you would still not have had a good cause quit. To receive unemployment insurance after you quit a job, you have to prove you had a pretty serious work related valid reason to quit. For it to be approved after a quit it has to be pretty major problem. There is an understanding that the employer has the responsibility of getting the work done. They are given much latitude by the unemployment agency in setting work requirements, work hours, etc. for the benefit of the business, not necessarily being good for the employee. For example, if they're giving everyone twelve hours a day seven days a week, and you quit because of the excessive hours, that's not necessarily a good work related reason to quit, even if you've complained about how it was causing you personal problems.

    Not liking the hours, being asked to do what was (in your opinion) far too much work, and the employer's refusal to give you hours that accommodated your school schedule did not make for a good cause to quit the job. When you worked the new job arrangement, six people doing the work of thirty, for any length of time, you accepted that condition. That your employer has forced you to work like a dog, do lots of overtime, all these things that have happened over the last long period, and then you quit your job, do not give you a good case that you had a valid reason to quit. That your employer suggested you quit when you complained to him this time didn't mean much either.

    You can appeal this to the board of review, but I don't see it having a good chance of working out in your favor. There's no new hearing at which you appear, just that you submit an appeal of the decision, and a review of the hearing and materials is done to determine if unemployment law has been followed.

    The employer always has the power to set hours and shifts to the good of the business. Your personal situation, regardless of how worthy or hard or good it is does not have to be accommodated by the employer. Sometimes they will try, but sometimes they want something other than what would be best for you. They may say, "If you don't like it the way things are around here, I suggest you quit and find something you do like!" That is not considered forcing a quit, or threatening to fire if you do not quit.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,360

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Doesn't seem as if the boss is having too much trouble, now does it?
    Why would the boss care? It's the claimant's burden to prove that it was "quit or be fired." That's the problem. Claimants write letters of resignation like, "my last day will be mm/dd/yy because my life is going in a different direction," and yet they want the UI people to believe that it was "quit or be fired," and they only wrote a letter like that so they would still get a good reference. The employer is also free to say, "I never said that," and be belived. That's why I would never quit in a situation like that because I don't think it looks better on a resume and just complicates getting UI.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Posts
    104

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Well my boss did admit in the hearing that he asked me to resign. He was also asked whether he was aware that i was in college (here he lied saying that he wasn't aware). By the way(to other commentators) we never had any choices when 35 people were laid off. When those people left, company came up with new schedule that demanded us to work like dog. As someone mentioned i kept my resignation letter formal only because i have been working for that company since 10 years and that was the only job that i had and wanted to have good reference but now that i have appealed i am sure my boss would play that dirty trick. Also as someone asked i produced the evidence when i worked extra hours and the supervisor on duty said that i never work those hours and they never paid me. At that time i approached my boss and he viewed office camera to verify and he saw me i was working and he sent me an email confirming that i would get paid. Guess what ! till this date i never got paid for those hours. I also produced documentary evidence of this email to ALJ and my boss said that he was not aware of this and he will take care of this as soon as possible. All these things kept piling up and now burden is on me to prove whether i should be get UI. During the verbal conversation my boss also said that company cannot afford me to lay me off as i was in college and they would end up paying me until i finish college. I mentioned about this conversation to ALJ and boss was like he never said that (in hearing it was like he say i say). Regardless of any outcome i would go ahead and file appeal to the board.

    P.S. i m looking for job from the day when i left that place and still haven't find anything.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    1,360

    Default Re: Unemployment Appeal Denied

    Quote Quoting comment/ator
    View Post
    If you had complained about the long hours and then quit when the employer refused to give you a "more prevailing schedule" you would still not have had a good cause quit.

    The employer always has the power to set hours and shifts to the good of the business.
    Instead of talking in absolute terms, I should have said, "you might have a better shot," but your idea that it would not be good cause isn't supported either.

    http://scholar.google.com/scholar_ca...en&as_sdt=4,31

    "As to his work schedule, it has been held that where long hours are customary in a particular industry, one who quits because of those hours leaves without good cause."

    I didn't find any cases where someone quit when they weren't in such an occupation, but the possibility is still there.

    While the employer has the right to set your schedule, you don't have to always accept it or forfeit your rights to UI.

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