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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4

    Default Can a Neighbor Get a Survey Without Permission

    My question involves real estate located in the State of: Michigan, Windsor Township (just outside of Lansing).

    My neighbor owned a parcel that was shaped like a mailbox. Long & narrow driveway parcel going to a parcel of 10 acres that has their home on it. A vacant 15 acre parcel was between the long narrow driveway parcel and my own parcel. The parcel that contains their home already butted against my property. My neighbor is an avid deer hunter, however, I refuse to allow him to hunt my property. I have found his deer blinds located in my trees of my 15 acres of woods (yes, he admitted that they were his) so it is obvious that he has trespassed. On deer hunting opening day 2014, one of his guests crossed into the middle of my 40 acre parcel to argue with another deer hunter that was on my property with my permission.

    I rented the vacant 15 acre parcel for over 7 years and had seeded it and maintained it for hay. My neighbor purchased the vacant 15 acre parcel without having a property survey done & without my knowledge. I had just reseeded the property at the cost of $5k when I discovered that it had been sold because the ground was all tilled under by another farmer.

    I advised my neighbor that I intended to have a property survey done after I returned from vacation. While I was gone, my neighbor had his friend, who is not a licensed property surveyor, survey & mark the property line. He marked the line with wooden stakes marked "official property line" and inserted a metal rod in the ground. I moved forward with having a licensed survey conducted & the survey lines were within a foot of each other.

    I filed a complaint with LARA, the licensing regulatory authority, however, when they questioned my neighbor, he lied & advised them that he had conducted the survey himself as the property owner (which is not illegal). My complaint was dismissed.

    My neighbor, being a jerk, moved the wooden stakes including moving one into the middle of my hayfield.

    I had discussed this matter on several deer hunting forums & 2 attorneys chimed in quoting the law MCL 339.601(7) stating that anyone not licensed as a professional surveyor could not perform a property survey.

    In May of this year, a journalist contacted me wanting to write about my issue as evidently she was interested in the fact that my neighbor works for LARA, the same regulatory agency that dismissed my complaint. I replied to the journalist that I wasn't interested & sent a copy to my neighbor.

    My neighbor sent a Michigan State Police Officer to my house this past week citing harassment, but frankly, since my neighbor's brother & other relatives are employed with MSP, I believe that they were attempting to further harass me. For instance, the trooper threatened several times to shoot my 12 year old dog who was laying peacefully a short distance away, stating that my dog tried to bite him. At no time did the dog display any aggressiveness towards the officer. Then the trooper expressed disgust for my refusal to allow my neighbor to hunt on my property, stating that since I only use my property 2-3 times a year, what difference did it make. I pointed out that my neighbors trespass on my property & have dumped their trash & debris on my property causing my horses to be ill & extensive damage to expensive hay producing equipment. He stated that it wasn't against the law for my neighbors to dump their trash on my property & that I didn't need to worry about what was happening on the back of my property that I rarely use. The officer told me that I wasn't allowed to discuss my issue with my neighbors & the illegal property survey on any forum on the internet (say what?) and then went on to threaten to arrest me, confiscate my cell phone and my computer and even come and talk to my boss at work.

    I stated that it was my intention to put up a fence between the two properties, and the officer told me that I'm not allowed to do so. I told him that I had checked the zoning ordinance with the Township Supervisor and was allowed to put up a fence up to & including 8 feet. In fact, I elected to put the fence a foot onto my own property so that I maintain ownership of the fence, despite the fact that the township prefers that the fence be put on the actual property line to avoid confusion and to keep neighbors from having to go onto other properties to mow or trim.

    I have never filed any type of complaint against my neighbors despite the fact that they have filed complaints with Eaton County Animal Control stating that my horses were abused/mistreated, supplied gravel for my driveway that was embellished with debris that resulted in damage to expensive equipment, sent nasty & threatening emails to my place of work, leaving gates open to my property causing a dog to be killed and a horse to be injured and trespassed. Yet the police officer told me that none of this happened despite the fact that I had witnesses. I just request that they leave me alone. Obviously that is too much to ask.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    Why do you think your neighbor needs your knowledge or permission to purchase or survey property? If you have a lease, he's obliged to honor it, other than that, he's free to tell you to take a hike. Wooden stakes on the property line aren't intended to be permanent, he's not going to run into any issues with removing them. By and large you can not force them to leave you alone. Consult an attorney and build the fence (if you can do so by right) on the property line.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Why do you think your neighbor needs your knowledge or permission to purchase or survey property? If you have a lease, he's obliged to honor it, other than that, he's free to tell you to take a hike. Wooden stakes on the property line aren't intended to be permanent, he's not going to run into any issues with removing them. By and large you can not force them to leave you alone. Consult an attorney and build the fence (if you can do so by right) on the property line.
    If I implied that my neighbor needed my permission to purchase or survey property, I apologize, as he certainly doesn't.
    I offered to have my property surveyed & in fact did so. I thought I was being agreeable, generous even.
    Yes, I had a lease, but the property owner considered it null & void since she sold the property. Neither the new owners nor the previous owner bothered to contact me. Since I was leasing it, I do think some one should have bothered.

    I elected to build the fence a foot on my side of the property line so that I can hopefully continue to just co-exist (if that's possible).

    I 'believe' in Michigan it's against the law to remove the wooden stakes per MCL 339.601, or so I was told by LARA (the regulatory agency), 3 different real estate attorneys & the Michigan Association of Professional Surveyors.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    I don't see anything about survey markers in that code section you listed.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    4

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    I apologize. I was under the impression that it was covered under that law & will need to search further.

    This is the email that I received from my attorney when I asked if I could remove the unlicensed surveyor's markers: Do not remove any markers as it is against the law. "thou shall not remove stakes" may only apply to stakes placed by licensed surveyors, but that is a licensing question.

    Moving or destroying certain of the survey markers is a crime in Michigan. For other border shenanigans, I have had to go to court to get restraining orders.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Act 149 of 1883, Section 54.222?

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    in alto mare
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    The next time the cops come by, make sure you record them.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    El Dorado County, CA
    Posts
    395

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    The landowner exception to the licensing requirement is in MCL 339.2012(c). It is expressly limited to work pertaining to the construction of a building within his own property. Since a boundary line is the edge of at least two properties, it is by definition not within the property, and it is not surveying directly related to building construction. Whether he did it himself or had another unlicensed person stake the line, one of them was violating the law.

    I thought that your offer to have the line surveyed at your cost was more than fair. With that offer, there was no defensible reason why your neighbor should have had it done by an unlicensed person or attempted to do it himself.

    I'm somewhat confused about your lease of the 15 acres. Were you under lease at the time it was sold to this guy? If so, were there any provisions in it relative to sale of the property while the lease was in effect? If you were not currently under lease, why did you invest $5000 to seed it this year?

    The behavior you described by the MSP is deplorable and a very good indication that they were not there acting in an official capacity that would be sanctioned by the department, and in fact may be a felony. A meeting with the Captain of the post may be in order.

    Giving it a couple more minutes thought, with this level of harassment, I would hire an attorney who could represent you in a complaint process. If the facts are as you state them, this level of corruption is criminal and should result, at a minimum, in your neighbor losing his job at LARA and his relative losing the ability to hold a position as a peace officer or to carry a weapon in that capacity or as a civilian (ccw).

    I would also suggest investing in your own dash-cam system and other video and audio recording systems that you can carry with you and activate inconspicuously. If that MSP officer is bold enough to show up to your home to threaten you and threaten to kill your dog, being pulled over for "diving erratically", having a burned out tail light, or some road dirt that partially obscures your license plate is well within this person's ethical bounds.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Illegal Property Survey Causes Great Hostility

    Just a note: unless your property is posted or you have otherwise given a person notice, they are not trespassing when entering your property. So, if you do not want the guy on your property make sure you post your land or give him notice he is not permitted to enter your property.


    As to your lease; unless there were terms that terminated your lease upon the sale of the property, the the new owner is likely liable for at least the lost hayseed.

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