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  1. #21
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    988

    Default Re: Revoking Brother's Access

    unless you get a whopping non refundable cash deposit up front like 50% of the deal with some serious sale language in your favor crafted by your lawyer , to get it done in 60 days ....your brother will be stringing you out for many a month .....and leave you stranded at the end.....

  2. #22
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Revoking Brother's Access

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
    View Post
    unless you get a whopping non refundable cash deposit up front like 50% of the deal with some serious sale language in your favor crafted by your lawyer , to get it done in 60 days ....your brother will be stringing you out for many a month .....and leave you stranded at the end.....
    The hypothetical win/win in an off-market deal with my brother was that
    we could split the savings by not needing real estate agents. If both of
    us need to get lawyered-up, as they say, what made this deal appealing
    in the first place goes out the window.

    Regardless of that, for reasons already stated, the real chances of any deal
    with my brother are nil. He has no motivation to actually go through with
    it. And he has every motivation in the world to drag it out for as long as
    he can.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    I don't think that the information you obtained is either from a California lawyer, or from a lawyer who is well-versed in California landlord-tenant law.... I notice that you don't say that the answer was from a lawyer at all.
    I meant to address this earlier. The information was from a pay-for-answer website
    (www DOT justanswer.com), and from a person claiming to be a lawyer.

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Tenancy in California is predicated on the deal struck by the landlord and tenant -- the grant of the tenancy in exchange for the receipt of rent -- and when that occurs the tenancy arises immediately, not after thirty days.
    No tenancy was discussed or knowingly granted by me. No rent
    was offered, requested, or received.

    Perhaps I asked the wrong question on that webstite. Here is what I asked him.

    Me: About 45 days ago, My brother and I had a verbal quid pro quo arrangement allowing him free access (not rental, not full-time occupancy) to my vacant property. He's not living up to his obligations, and I want to cancel our arrangement. Under what circumstances, and after how many days does it take before he becomes a "tenant" in the eyes of California?
    I don't want to post the entire dialog here. Mainly because it is quite long,
    and largely redundant with what I've already posted. Also, a copyright
    infringement suit is the last thing I need right now.

    After asking me a few questions and my answering them he answered with
    this:

    Attorney: Ok, then if there is no signed purchase contract, then the general rule is if someone stays longer than 30 days, they stop being a guest and gain the rights of a tenant and the owner is their landlord. So if he has been staying there on and off for 45 days, then you are going to have to formally evict him if he won't voluntarily leave and return the keys to you.

  3. #23
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Revoking Brother's Access

    Do a follow-up and ask him to cite his authority for that statement.

  4. #24
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Revoking Brother's Access

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    Do a follow-up and ask him to cite his authority for that statement.
    I don't know if I have open-ended access to do that. I was able to post the question,
    though, so I will post any reply here if he answers.

    Ok, got it. Here's the answer to the follow-up.

    That is under CA Civil Code 1946 and 827a that I mentioned above.
    1946. A hiring of real property, for a term not specified by the parties, is deemed to be renewed as stated in Section 1945, at the end of the term implied by law unless one of the parties gives written notice to the other of his or her intention to terminate the same, at least as long before the expiration thereof as the term of the hiring itself, not exceeding 30 days; provided, however, that as to tenancies from month to month either of the parties may terminate the same by giving at least 30 days' written notice thereof at any time and the rent shall be due and payable to and including the date of termination. It shall be competent for the parties to provide by an agreement at the time the tenancy is created that a notice of the intention to terminate the same may be given at any time not less than seven days before the expiration of the term thereof. The notice herein required shall be given in the manner prescribed in Section 1162 of the Code of Civil Procedure or by sending a copy by certified or registered mail addressed to the other party. In addition, the lessee may give the notice by sending a copy by certified or registered mail addressed to the agent of the lessor to whom the lessee has paid the rent for the month prior to the date of the notice or by delivering a copy to the agent personally. The notice given by the lessor shall also contain, in substantially the same form, the following: "State law permits former tenants to reclaim abandoned personal property left at the former address of the tenant, subject to certain conditions. You may or may not be able to reclaim property without incurring additional costs, depending on the cost of storing the property and the length of time before it is reclaimed. In general, these costs will be lower the sooner you contact your former landlord after being notified that property belonging to you was left behind after you moved out."

    827. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), in all leases of lands or tenements, or of any interest therein, from week to week, month to month, or other period less than a month, the landlord may, upon giving notice in writing to the tenant, in the manner prescribed by Section 1162 of the Code of Civil Procedure, change the terms of the lease to take effect, as to tenancies for less than one month, upon the expiration of a period at least as long as the term of the hiring itself, and, as to tenancies from month to month, to take effect at the expiration of not less than 30 days, but if that change takes effect within a rental term, the rent accruing from the first day of the term to the date of that change shall be computed at the rental rate obtained immediately prior to that change; provided, however, that it shall be competent for the parties to provide by an agreement in writing that a notice changing the terms thereof may be given at any time not less than seven days before the expiration of a term, to be effective upon the expiration of the term. The notice, when served upon the tenant, shall in and of itself operate and be effectual to create and establish, as a part of the lease, the terms, rents, and conditions specified in the notice, if the tenant shall continue to hold the premises after the notice takes effect.
    Perhaps a better question to have asked would have been this?

    I am remotely located from my vacant residential real property in California. Does granting rent-free access to my property to my brother, who is more closely located to the property than I am, to enable him to schedule, oversee, and pay (on my behalf) for repairs to the house, constitute a "hiring of real property" under CA Civil Codes, if that access has been granted for more than 30 days?
    Any opinions about whether I would get a more favorable answer (that being that I can just seize my property back without eviction or permission from my brother)?

  5. #25
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    988

    Default Re: Revoking Brother's Access

    You are missing the whole point...it is NOT a foregone conclusion that letting your brother have use of your premises as your invitee and in absence of agreement or consideration that he is somehow magically a tenant! Nothing you post supports that there was an agreement to hire property..unless you put forth the wrong words. And if you play hardball you may be able to unwrap this mud hole . If you hand him tenant status on a silver platter he is going to wrap the platter around your neck.

  6. #26
    Join Date
    Sep 2015
    Posts
    23

    Default Re: Revoking Brother's Access

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
    View Post
    You are missing the whole point...it is NOT a foregone conclusion that letting your brother have use of your premises as your invitee and in absence of agreement or consideration that he is somehow magically a tenant! Nothing you post supports that there was an agreement to hire property..unless you put forth the wrong words. And if you play hardball you may be able to unwrap this mud hole . If you hand him tenant status on a silver platter he is going to wrap the platter around your neck.
    You have no idea how comforting it is to read your reply.
    Yes, I can often be as thick as a bag of bricks. But thank
    you for hanging in there with me anyway

    Now I'm feeling much more confident about what I need
    to do next.

    If he chooses to contest my action, in his clouded state of mind,
    it is entirely possible my brother will outright lie, and falsely claim
    that there was a rental agreement. And he is fully capable of
    convincing himself that it is truth.

    But that is a bridge I am willing to burn when/if he builds it.

    Your comments are VERY much appreciated in this stressful
    time.

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