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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    Default Installing Spyware on Children's Computers to Monitor Their Mother's Home

    My question involves a marriage in the state of: Virginia

    My wife moved out and took kids with her(13 and 10 years old). They live in an apartment now. Kids come to my place on Saturdays. We are not divorced. I am going to file for divorce soon.

    When kids come to my place, they bring their laptops to me. Technically, I can secretly install a spy program on their laptops and remotely control that program to record the sound(conversation) in their apartment, even video camera for me to view their living space. My wife neglects kids and sometimes abuses kids too. Without my presence, I doubt kids are treated well by their crazy mother. I suspect their two bedroom apartment is crammed with all kinds of junk(she does home business too).

    If not allowed, I may call Child Protective Service to check them out. Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Recording sound is illegal. Whatever you record will be useless because it won't be admissible in court and trying to hold it over your wife's head without court could result in you being criminally prosecuted.

    As for recording video, there could be all sorts of crimes involved there since you can't control where the laptops will be when the recording occurs. If the recording take place where there is an expectation of privacy you are subject to criminal prosecution. If, god forbid, your kids leave the laptop on in their bedrooms while getting undressed you go to jail for kiddie porn.

    Installing a spy program is an incredibly bad idea.

    As for CPS, that's up to you, but I doubt that will do any good either. There's nothing dangerous about living in a sloppy house. So don't get CPS involved unless your kids report specific physical abuse to you and have marks on their bodies to prove it.

    Otherwise your machinations will just give your wife plenty of stuff to use against you.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Folks, this poster's hx is very, very telling.

    He has some major issues with control.

    - - - Updated - - -

    And you DO NOT call CPS to "check in". Are you actively trying to alienate your children?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
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    988

    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    VA is a one party consent state..and I a doubt one needs consent to record ones own minor children.
    But if you wind up recording your wife, especially in a place where one would expect privacy.....I think you just handed yourself a time bomb on a short fuse that might come with felony attached .

    Super dumb .....

  5. #5
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
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    VA is a one party consent state
    Yes. But that's irrelevant because he wouldn't be recording a conversation to which he is a party.

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
    View Post
    I doubt one needs consent to record ones own minor children.
    But if you wind up recording your wife,
    Or your naked children.

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
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    I think you just handed yourself a time bomb on a short fuse that might come with felony attached .

    Super dumb .....
    You got that right.

  6. #6
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    Jun 2015
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    988

    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    I've not seen the point raised but I suspect a parent can consent on behalf of his minor children to record them., But either way ..its a dumb road for,Dad to travel here.

    A more logical question to ask might be thismSaturday when kids come to visit, simply have them stay with dad going forward ?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
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    I've not seen the point raised but I suspect a parent can consent on behalf of his minor children to record them., But either way ..its a dumb road for,Dad to travel here.

    Several states allow for a parent to "vicariously consent" to record a conversation between the child and a third party only under very limited circumstances.

    And of course, that says nothing at all about whether a judge would actually entertain such a recording. Unless there's a damn good reason for recording - and I mean criminal behavior, not "I'd like to spy on my wife and children if that's okay" behavior - I know of no judge who would praise the parent for doing so.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In other words, Devon, you're basically wrong. Shocker.

  8. #8
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    Nov 2013
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    in alto mare
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
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    I've not seen the point raised but I suspect a parent can consent on behalf of his minor children to record them., But either way ..its a dumb road for,Dad to travel here.

    A more logical question to ask might be thismSaturday when kids come to visit, simply have them stay with dad going forward ?
    If you follow what he's been saying, his plan is to flee to Asia to live with his parents. Sans children.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
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    I've not seen the point raised but I suspect a parent can consent on behalf of his minor children to record them.
    You are referring to what the law calls vaicarious consent. The law on that is very mixed. There are two sets of laws that must be considered: the federal wiretap law and then the state wiretap law. Under federal case law, there is a limited ability for a parent to use vaicarious consent to escape prosecution for violating the federal wiretap laws for recording conversations between his child and others when the parent is not a party to the conversation. The 6th Circuit in Pollack v. Pollack, 154 F.3d 601 (1998) states the basic standard that seems to be the most used for federal vaicarious consent cases:

    [W]e agree with the district court’s adoption of the doctrine, provided that a clear emphasis is put on the need for the “consenting” parent to demonstrate a good faith, objectively reasonable basis for believing such consent was necessary for the welfare of the child. Accordingly, we adopt the standard set forth by the district court in Thompson and hold that as long as the guardian has a good faith, objectively reasonable basis for believing that it is necessary and in the best interest of the child to consent on behalf of his or her minor child to the taping of telephone conversations, the guardian may vicariously consent on behalf of the child to the recording. See Thompson, 838 F.Supp. at 1544. Such vicarious consent will be exempt from liability under Title III, pursuant to the consent exception contained in 18 U.S.C. § 2511(2)(d).

    We stress that while this doctrine should not be interpreted as permitting parents to tape any conversation involving their child simply by invoking the magic words: “I was doing it in his/her best interest,” there are situations, such as verbal, emotional, or sexual abuse by the other parent, that make such a doctrine necessary to protect the child from harm.

    Note a couple of things about these cases. First, they only allow the taping when the parent or guardian “has a good faith, objectively reasonable basis for believing that it is necessary and in the best interest of the child.” The parent better have something good to point to as the basis for that belief, simply saying he thought it was necessary isn’t good enough. Second, these cases tend to only allow taping of conversations within the family or, in some cases, with a a nonfamily member who may be actually abusing the child.

    But the problem here is that the proposed taping could well capture conversations that fall outside this doctrine, in which case the OP would be exposed to possible criminal prosecution under federal law. Moreover, the OP would be unable to use any such illegally obtained recording in court.

    Not all states have addressed the issue of how vaicarious consent will apply under the state wiretap laws and those that have have arrived at different rules for it. Some states reject it altogether.

    The video part of a recording raises different issues, and again the lack of control over what is being taped will be a problem.

    Thus, before attempting any such taping, I would strongly urge the OP to get very good legal advice from a criminal defense lawyer in his state. The consequences if he gets it wrong could be quite severe.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Install a Spy Program in My Kids' Laptop to Monitor Their Activities, Legal

    Virginia has a case currently under appeal - the father is trying to have the whole thing tossed, and it does look like (from the very quick scan) the court will rule in his favor.

    What worries me - and I do not say this loosely - is the very, very troubling issue of wanting to control Mom. I understand there are cultural differences at play here, but I believe she has perhaps been talking with her American friends and they've likely counseled her in the ways of Equality 101.

    That's assuming that Mom is also from Asia, a fact we can't confirm at this point. However if she's not, then I believe it's pretty obvious where the marital strife originated.

    This one? Just makes me... I don't know. Goose-pimply. In the bad way.

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