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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    4

    Default Defenses for Failure to Stop at the Limit Line, VC 21453(A)

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California

    The cop wrote on the ticket:
    21453 (a) VC OBSERVE DRIVER NOT COME TO COMPLETE STOP AT LIMIT LINE TRI-LIGHT CONTINUED NORTH BOUND ON HILLHURST.

    And I say that what he wrote is not possible to do.

    It is impossible on a RED LIGHT to turn left from Franklin Av. into Hillhurst Av. Los Angeles 90027 at 8 PM. on any given evening, due to the abundant traffic in that intersection.
    One would run over pedestrians in Franklin crosswalk then crash into either the southbound or the northbound lane of cars or both on Hillhurst.

    I actually went back there and tried several times, since I got that ticket, to make that left turn, WITH A GREEN LIGHT without coming to a complete stop but I COULD NOT DO IT.
    Every time I HAD TO STOP in the left-turn lane in Franklin Av. before being able to make the left turn into Hillhurst Av. due to the incoming traffic.
    So with A RED LIGHT the scenario that the cop came with is just false, fictitious, dishonest, mistaken, untruthful etc.

    My point is that I did not drive through that red light because ONE CANNOT RUN A RED LIGHT IN THAT INTERSECTION AND MAKE A LEFT TURN WITHOUT EITHER HAVING AN ACCIDENT OR RUNNING OVER A PEDESTRIAN OR BOTH.

    In a regular trial I would challenge the prosecution to demonstrate to the jury how the infraction described on the ticked is feasible in reality, they would not be able to and I would win my case.
    But in a traffic court, the judge and the jury are the same person, the driver is presumed guilty and to be a liar and the cop word will always prevail before a judge.

    I would appreciate any legal opinion on how to handle that situation.

    For the record I am an senior citizen disable and got 2 traffic tickets in my whole life. One 20 years ago for an U-Turn in a commercial zone and that one last week.

    Thank you all.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    Neither your citation nor the statute say you ran a red light.

    https://www.dmv.ca.gov/portal/dmv/de...11/c2/a3/21453

  3. #3

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    Quote Quoting lalan
    View Post
    The cop wrote on the ticket:
    21453 (a) VC OBSERVE DRIVER NOT COME TO COMPLETE STOP AT LIMIT LINE TRI-LIGHT CONTINUED NORTH BOUND ON HILLHURST.

    It is impossible on a RED LIGHT to turn left from Franklin Av. into Hillhurst Av. Los Angeles 90027 at 8 PM. on any given evening, due to the abundant traffic in that intersection.
    One would run over pedestrians in Franklin crosswalk then crash into either the southbound or the northbound lane of cars or both on Hillhurst.

    I actually went back there and tried several times, since I got that ticket, to make that left turn, WITH A GREEN LIGHT without coming to a complete stop but I COULD NOT DO IT.
    Every time I HAD TO STOP in the left-turn lane in Franklin Av. before being able to make the left turn into Hillhurst Av. due to the incoming traffic.
    So with A RED LIGHT the scenario that the cop came with is just false, fictitious, dishonest, mistaken, untruthful etc.

    My point is that I did not drive through that red light because ONE CANNOT RUN A RED LIGHT IN THAT INTERSECTION AND MAKE A LEFT TURN WITHOUT EITHER HAVING AN ACCIDENT OR RUNNING OVER A PEDESTRIAN OR BOTH.
    Is this the intersection?


    Can you explain exactly what happened? I'm confused by your post. Were you facing a steady green signal when you made your left turn?

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    4

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    Correct. This is the intersection. I went back there during day light and made a video depicting pretty much what happened that evening.
    I'm in the process of transferring it into a web page/browser .
    I will send you the link to that video as soon as it's ready probably by the end of the afternoon .

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    You've not explained why any amount of traffic prevents you from stopping. You were cited for being stopped in the intersection (which by the way is also inexcusable) but the fact you blew past the stop line while the light was red.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    4

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    - - - Updated - - -

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting JH-Engr
    View Post
    Is this the intersection?


    Can you explain exactly what happened? I'm confused by your post. Were you facing a steady green signal when you made your left turn?
    Sorry no video due to some technical difficulties.
    So let's look at your picture of the intersection. I am in the left lane, stopped, waiting to make a left turn northbound in Hillhurst; The light is green and there are cars in front of me waiting as well to make that left turn. So we are all waiting for the incoming traffic from Franklin on the opposite side of the intersection to clear.
    Finally after no more cars are crossing the intersection we (the cars in the left turn lane), all proceed to make that left turn. Simultaneously the traffic light changed from green to orange then to red.
    That's why I said that the statement " OBSERVE DRIVER NOT COME TO COMPLETE STOP AT LIMIT LINE TRI-LIGHT CONTINUED NORTH BOUND ON HILLHURST" on the ticket is false.
    All cars in the left turn lane where totally stopped, waiting for the opposite incoming traffic lane to clear.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    It's impossible for the light to cycle from green to YELLOW to red "simultaneously" with anything.

    You've lost me here. Are you saying you proceeded past the stop line making a left turn when the light was red? It matters not whether you fully stopped or not, you're not to proceed into the intersection on a red singal to turn left at this intersection.

    Even when you can proceed on a red signal (or at a stop sign), stopping several cars back from the limit line doesn't give you any credit for stopping. You need to stop at the limit line.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Aug 2015
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    4

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    It's impossible for the light to cycle from green to YELLOW to red "simultaneously" with anything.

    You've lost me here. Are you saying you proceeded past the stop line making a left turn when the light was red? It matters not whether you fully stopped or not, you're not to proceed into the intersection on a red singal to turn left at this intersection.

    Even when you can proceed on a red signal (or at a stop sign), stopping several cars back from the limit line doesn't give you any credit for stopping. You need to stop at the limit line.
    Hello flyingwrong,

    This is your second time you reply to my post and it is obvious that you do not understand what I am writing about, probably because I don't know how to express myself clearly.
    Therefore I would appreciate if you could stop replying to my post.
    In the meantime, thank you so much for your participation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Posts
    8,006

    Default Re: How to Defend Myself Against a False Accusation of 21453 (A)

    Quote Quoting lalan
    View Post
    This is your second time you reply to my post and it is obvious that you do not understand what I am writing about, probably because I don't know how to express myself clearly.
    Therefore I would appreciate if you could stop replying to my post.
    In the meantime, thank you so much for your participation
    The volunteers here can only reply based on the information you provide. If you do not express yourself such that they misunderstand you, that is not their fault.

    Were you behind the limit line before the light turned red or ahead of it?

    P.S. You don't get to dictate who does and does not respond to your queries.

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