Establishment of Probable Cause for a Drug Offense

[jk]

I've struggled with this for a while now, but immediately after the investigation was initiated I experienced some situations that made me believe that I might be under vehicular surveillance.

it's possible or your paranoia may have gotten the better of you. If they were investigating you for the manufacture and sale of drugs they may have been tailing you to attempt to catch you in the act.

Furthermore, someone told me the PC necessary to initiated a drug investigation and enter a dwelling was extremely high and difficult to obtain, that undercover cars sometimes wait for months outside of homes they suspect of drug activity before they are able to obtain PC.

whether it is difficult or not depends on the circumstances and yes, they may have had you under surveillance if they believed it would lead to evidence that would be probable cause to seek a search warrant or even an arrest warrant.

Does anyone have a speculation on what sort of evidence they may have needed to get a search warrant for that academic lab? Could it be a little as someone's statement, or do they need evidence of drugs or something else before they could ever do that? I always imagined it took a hell of a lot of something very convincing to put a professor in such a humiliating situation.

there is no way to really answer this. Once they suspect some illicit activity they may question people. If they receive credible information that there is illegal activity ongoing in the lab that may have been adequate to obtain a search warrant. There is simply no way to guess what their PC was or how they obtained it.

[Jache]

Thanks JK,

through the nature of your responses, it is sounding like these sorts of warrants are privileged documents, so I'll never know? One other thing, I've been really frustrated is this. When checking my workspace they found a scint vial containing some powder, and placed in an awkward location so they analyzed it with one of those larger purple-fluid filled baggie tests specific to methamphetamine. Well it tested positive for meth, but since protocol in MI is to always follow those tests up with a gas-chromatography mass spec test at the state lab which is the most accurate way to determine the exact identity of a chemical substance, it failed and showed up as some other random amine. I worked with tons of amines in my projects, so that didn't surprise me. It also explains why the field test came positive because its similar enough in structure to produce a false positive. What's killing me is they kept referencing the positive test throughout the Discovery and essentially manipulated it a evidence of meth production because they never mentioned the follow test that is even more accurate and failed. Then they referenced this as evidence in the courtroom. What was going on here, they were primarily domestic violence detectives conducting a drug investigation, did they just not understand it didn't confer any evidence whatsoever, or can they feign ignorance and use the results in and of themselves in any test that indicates positive? They really had a party with this one.

[jk]

They are not privileged if you are being prosecuted but since the you said the charges were dropped I am not certain the evidence used to show probable cause is available. You would have no basis to challenge the warrants so they would have no reason to disclose the information to you.

It also explains why the field test came positive because its similar enough in structure to produce a false positive. What's killing me is they kept referencing the positive test throughout the Discovery and essentially manipulated it a evidence of meth production because they never mentioned the follow test that is even more accurate and failed. Then they referenced this as evidence in the courtroom.

What was going on here, they were primarily domestic violence detectives conducting a drug investigation, did they just not understand it didn't confer any evidence whatsoever, or can they feign ignorance and use the results in and of themselves in any test that indicates positive? They really had a party with this one.

there was no trial so the mention was simply to show there was probable cause to go to the next step

but where was your attorney in all of this to argue that subsequent tests did not support the meth theory?

and what is the point in all of this? If the charges were dropped, there is nothing more to do. Continuing to dissect the situation will result in you going crazy. The pieces very often do not seem to fit together until they are brought together at a trial. Since that didn't happen, it will likely never make real sense to you.

[Jache]

Honestly, mostly just appeasing curiosity here. Nothing about this case seemed at all obvious of drug manufacturing that warranted them committing the resources they did to it. I was curious what they had, and why, that suggested otherwise. Thats it.

[jk]

those are things you will likely never know but if you did work in a lab where you would have been able to make meth, I would take a wild guess and say somebody made a report they believed you were in fact making meth. The police ran with that and you are where you are.

[Jache]

On the other hand, through some extremely crazy experiences that completely broadsided one summer, I gained a completely different respect for law enforcement and judicial workings through all this. I don't intend to come off as a baby or play the victim card, nor claim I hadn't broken a law in any of this, but I've gained a pervasive distrust towards law enforcement and subsequent prosecutor workings. Delusional or not, I felt that the criminal justice system is extremely opportunistic and predatory; it hunts for people in vulnerable positions that have somehow landed their through fate, and completely disregards the distinct and not so farfetched plausibility that the suspect may be completely innocent, or at least absent of criminal culpability. And through all my experiences, and all the legal processes, and legal powers I interfaced with I was able to observe first hand how the evidence obtained in compromising situations is manipulated to fall in place in fabricated stories by CJS powers to pin blame. I can appreciate why this sort of vigilance might be a necessary cost to protect the greater benefit of ensuring safety in society. But I wish there was more of an awareness, for anyone who has ever been through these sort of situations, perhaps without merit, and ultimately found not guilty, or for those who have been through them and got trapped by those manipulated stories and evidence into guilty convictions, thus wrongfully completely destroying the livelihoods of themselves and their families, the lasting damages sustained by innocent people are one of the greatest evils in this country. A person found not guilty in a court proceeding is never acknowledged for their hardship or even apologized to by accusing powers. They just walk off and claim that you got lucky or they didn't have enough evidence to prove that you actually committed a crime you are still actually guilty of. And it cast a lingering question mark over the defendants life that he gets defend forever. Most European countries destroy records from criminal proceedings that did not result in an criminal conviction, some seal those records from public and eliminate them after a certain amount of years, but in the US your arrest, charge, and conviction record is available to any person who ever wants to make a value judgement on you. And lets be honest, when that sort of information is available, how can you possibly be treated as innocent until proven guilty. I dunno, maybe just part of growing up but all this was a shock for me. And I will continue to be vigilant, hyper paranoid, and distrustful of my government for the rest of my life as a result.

- - - Updated - - -

If you need any sort of confirming evidence of where I'm coming from here, just take a look at some of my other posts on this website. You'll see I constant slip in and out of coherence and rationality. Some days my brain works like a charm, and I'm back where I was at when I was interning in medical school, when life was full of ambition, promise, and the support of loved ones and family. Other days, I'm a complete neurotic and delusional mess, where my actions are so bizarre that I'm perceived as a drug user and a threat to others. That's lasting SPMI that I inherited from all that legal shit resulting in 8 felonies carrying suggested sentences of a life term in total, completely ostracizing me from every relationship and connection I ever had, and ultimately complete isolation from society. Aren't those damages sustained the same sorts of damages that LE attacks perpetrators so aggressively for bringing onto society. How is that any different from crime?

[Mr. Knowitall]

those are things you will likely never know but if you did work in a lab where you would have been able to make meth, I would take a wild guess and say somebody made a report they believed you were in fact making meth. The police ran with that and you are where you are.

I think it's more simple than that. The statute is not only for manufacture -- it's manufacture/delivery. I think the girlfriend (perhaps after getting arrested herself) accused him of sharing his drugs with her -- that's delivery.

[jk]

I think it's more simple than that. The statute is not only for manufacture -- it's manufacture/delivery. I think the girlfriend (perhaps after getting arrested herself) accused him of sharing his drugs with her -- that's delivery.

I suppose I should have read all of Jache's threads:

I'll be short and to the point. 2 years ago jilted GF files false allegations of drug manufacturing at my university lab against me. Investigation is initiated because small amount of drug (20 mg) is found in my desk at workplace.

so you WERE guilty of possession of meth and you did have the ability and knowledge to manufacture the drug in the lab you were using.

for Pete's sake guy, it doesn't sound like much of anything was amiss here. When you actually use and possess drugs, that allows for a lot of investigation by the cops.

[Jache]

I can confirm those were not the circumstances. However this is really getting me interested about something. In order for the evidence that is used to obtain a search warrant to be valid, does it have to be in physical custody of the police? Or can police come across something illegal during a search that they are not allowed to confiscate due to the confines of the search warrant, perhaps take a picture of it, and still use that as PC evidence for securing a search warrant?

[jk]

[QUOTE=Jache;903534]I can confirm those were not the circumstances. However this is really getting me interested about something.

In order for the evidence that is used to obtain a search warrant to be valid, does it have to be in physical custody of the police?

a verbal communication to the police can be adequate to obtain a search warrant. Each situation requires independent study to determine the validity of the issuing of a warrant.

Or can police come across something illegal during a search that they are not allowed to confiscate due to the confines of the search warrant, perhaps take a picture of it, and still use that as PC evidence for securing a search warrant?

so you think if the police come across something they know to be illegal during the execution of a search warrant for some other unrelated issue have to simply walk away and ignore it?

I can see it now:


trooper to sergeant:

sarge, there's a dead body over here

sarge to trooper; trooper, the warrant is for drugs and drug paraphernalia

troooper; ya,, but there's a big knife laying next the body and the head has been removed from the body. I think it's a murder victim

sarge; but the warrant is for drugs and drug paraphernalia. We cannot investigate the possibility of a murder. In fact, when we leave you have to forget you ever saw it because it was not within the scope of our warrant. Got it?

trooper; but there is a crime....

sarge; NO. We have to ignore it like we never saw it; that's the law.