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  1. #1
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    Default Seeking a Protective Order During a Divorce and Custody Case

    My question involves restraining orders in the State of: CA

    I have a friend who was with her boyfriend for some time (my friend is very young.......she was 15 when they first met......there is a 9 year age difference)

    - I knew this guy was bad news but you know how it is......young people dont want to hear those things......we stayed friend....the parents never knew the age difference between the two.

    - She got pregnant last year......and they immediately got married.
    - She moved out of state with him and within about 3 months of moving away from friends and family the true colors started coming out.....constant mental abuse.....constant cheating on her.....and curiously while he never physically hit her he would try to convince his FRIENDS to hurt her when he got mad at her.....she almost got thrown down stairs by one of his friends and she left him shortly after that and went back to her parents.
    - Boyfriend has documented PTSD from the military
    - Boyfriend has documented 51-50 in his medical records
    - So my friend comes home to have baby at her parents house (I know that it killed her to do that.....she always felt that her parents would never forgive her for what she did......but she bit the bullett and went home.
    - So now the short time husband ex boyfriend files paperwork for divorce. My friend had every intention of allowing dad visitation because she was going to need child support to take care of her daughter
    - I watched as my friend went through the final 2 months of her pregnancy constantly harrassed by the the man......I finally told her you need to call the police and at least have them come statement as his wording become more and more abusive and threatening. He filed 3 separate ex partay hearings in the final stages of her pregancy when she could barely move around that finally made the call.
    - The police officer said the filing of the hears was a form of harrassment that he commonly saw.....that the hearings are filed to mentally torment even though the court would always in the end deny them.
    - The police officer came to her house and told her that she needed to file for a restraining order and that there was enough justification to do that.
    - The police officer then called the man and told him to leave her alone and stop the harrassment and that she would be filing a restraining order
    - AFTER THAT PHONE CALL the man tracked her and her dad down at the town courthouse and shoved divorce paperwork at her
    - Her temp restraining order was denied
    - I told her at that point that she really needed to get a lawyer because once the man found out the temp was denied he picked up his harrassment even worse....trashing her to all of her friends....calling and testing several times a day (none of which was returned by my friend) basically forcing her off of social media because of bad mouthing he was doing to her. She has become very isolated except to her best friends and family.
    - She started having bad complications with her pregnancy I am positive it was due to the stress.
    - She says that she doesnt want to ask her parents for money and goes to her own restraining hearing by herself. THe judge denies it.
    - Things get worse....the judge orders the man to stay away while she is having her baby she goes into labor almost immediately after the restraining order hearing.
    - Family are forced to camp out at the hospital because the man gets as close as the hospital will allow to her room and even continues to try to work his way into the room through the staff. Man confronts all of her friend (including me) coming to support her at the hospital and gets very angry when people refuse to give him information Once the baby is born she is barely able to try to take of the baby as he is demanding equal time. throughout the day.
    - The baby is sick when born and is transferred to a hospital with a better ICU...this particular hospital has a social worker on staff and a police station right next door.
    - Within the span of 3 days the dad has threatened the social worker, the hospital staff, has left on his own (nearly dropping the baby on the floor because he was angry) and was escorted out by police the second time. The social worker has filed a full report on all this (takes 10 days for it to be made available) and the director of the hospital called Child Protection Services because the hospital fears he might try to take the baby when it leaves the hospital.
    - Social Worker did an interview with both my friend and the man and has assessed that the man is mentally unstable, does not really care about the child, and seems more interested in harrassing my friend. The man became angry when the social worker told him that she did not think it was a good idea they were at the hospital together and was trying to set up a separate schedule for my friend to breastfeed the baby and him to visit. THe first day he bacame angry and left, the second day he told the social worker he wasnt leaving and threatened the social worker and the staff and was escorted out by police.

    - Meanwhile my friend finally accepted help from her parents and hired a lawyer they get reattempted to get a temp restraining order with the help of the lawyer which was denied again (same judge. That judge told them in the first restraining order hearing that if the man was ever in front of him for the same reason the restraining order would be approved the 2nd time (I dont know if that meant the temp or the actual court hearing for restraining order)

    - Now she will have a lawyer with her when she goes to court for the perm restraining order and for the divorce/custody hearing. This makes her feel a little better because she has been so mentally beat down for all of this.

    A long story.....sorry.....I have been my friends shoulder to cry on and its almost like I am going through this with her. WHat I would like to know is....why would a temp restraining order (that a policement told her to go file for to begin with) be denied twice when the man is obviously quick to anger unstable, and is taking a lot of fun in mentally torturing this young person? Now she still has her day in court and no one has seen the hospital's social worker statement because that just happened.

    It was almost like the judge took the side of the man.....and yes the man can talk a good game while my friend sat their all intimidated and clammed up in front of the judge. He made it seem like he was going to school and was an upstanding citizen so the judge asked my friend if he had ever hit her. My friend doesnt want to lie or stretch the truth so she said no.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    I'm going to be brutally honest here. I think this stinks to high heaven and I think that your friend has too many extra cooks stirring the broth and it's going to make things extremely difficult for her if she's not careful.

    Under NO circumstances should a social worker be making ANY sort of "diagnosis" unless she's a psychiatrist who has actually assessed, diagnosed and/or otherwise treated Dad.

    The same goes for the officer who offered his erroneous and non-legal assessment. In fact, his actions would absolutely cause Dad to be more hostile - the officer did nothing but add fuel to the fire and he was clearly not overly familiar with the law. What was Dad expected to think?

    Your friend needs an attorney, and she needs to understand some things here. Even if she gets a restraining order against Dad, he's going to have regular access to his child. If it were me, I'd be furious at both the social worker and the LEO for overstepping their boundaries to such an enormous degree. Your friend also needs to stop listening and taking advice from people who are not qualified to speak.

    Before I get jumped on here, I'd like you to read your post again but this time do it as a third party would read it (like... me!).

  3. #3
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    I am not so sure what "erroneous and non-legal assessment" you believe was provided by the officer here. We regularly tell people who are harassed to obtain restraining orders - usually because many prosecutors won't pursue such complains even for annoying and harassing electronic communications absent such an order. We also regularly engage in conversation with reported victims and relate our observations such as court processes and other methods used by harassers against their exes.

    And, it is common practice for the police to contact a party who is harassing a complainant and advise them that further harassment can result in criminal charges, and even to inform the harasser that the complainant may be seeking a restraining order.

    Nothing in the OP's post leaps out to me as improper or unusual at least on the part of the officer. I also suspect that the social worker never made a diagnosis of mental illness, but probably did opine in her report that the ex was aggressive or displayed some other perceived improper or unsafe demeanor or attitude. Perhaps she did speak out of turn to the OP ... or, perhaps the OP is phrasing things as she wanted to hear them.

    As for the denial of the TRO, I suspect it was denied because there was no articulated threat of harm to the plaintiff. But, rather than deny the entire petition, the court did order a hearing though denying the temporary ex-parte order.

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of moving parts in this melodrama, and each of the pieces likely has little knowledge of what the other parts are doing. It can make for quite the disjointed tale and a bumpy resolution ... if a resolution at all.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  4. #4
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    I am not so sure what "erroneous and non-legal assessment" you believe was provided by the officer here. We regularly tell people who are harassed to obtain restraining orders - usually because many prosecutors won't pursue such complains even for annoying and harassing electronic communications absent such an order. We also regularly engage in conversation with reported victims and relate our observations such as court processes and other methods used by harassers against their exes.

    And, it is common practice for the police to contact a party who is harassing a complainant and advise them that further harassment can result in criminal charges, and even to inform the harasser that the complainant may be seeking a restraining order.

    Nothing in the OP's post leaps out to me as improper or unusual at least on the part of the officer. I also suspect that the social worker never made a diagnosis of mental illness, but probably did opine in her report that the ex was aggressive or displayed some other perceived improper or unsafe demeanor or attitude. Perhaps she did speak out of turn to the OP ... or, perhaps the OP is phrasing things as she wanted to hear them.

    As for the denial of the TRO, I suspect it was denied because there was no articulated threat of harm to the plaintiff. But, rather than deny the entire petition, the court did order a hearing though denying the temporary ex-parte order.

    Unfortunately, there are a lot of moving parts in this melodrama, and each of the pieces likely has little knowledge of what the other parts are doing. It can make for quite the disjointed tale and a bumpy resolution ... if a resolution at all.
    Thank you to everyone....I want to point out that all this information is as it was explained to me......the only thing I saw first hand was how upset the man was when I came tot he hospital to support my friend. My friend asked me not to give any information to the man and I told him I was not gonna do that and he got really really confrontation. Got right in my face and my boyfriend who was with me had to back him off.

    The other thing I found out....a new development today when I drove my friend to the ICU to feed her baby (the baby is being released to come home tomorrow and is going to my friends grandparents house) the man is running his mouth when he is going to see his baby daughter.....and is threatening to take the child. I think this is why Child Protective Services was called the other day.

    My friend wants to give him visittation but is now petrified that he is gonna steal the baby. This could end up getting really ugly at the grandparents house they think there is danger.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    It's my perception - and since the court has already virtually sided with Dad, it doesn't look like I'm alone in that perception.

    But let's remove that from the equation nonetheless. In fact, having read your response fully, let's remove the whole thing and start again - because clearly, the OP is missing details and just as clearly, what has been said is probably not quite as it was laid out.

    I will apologize though, because I took the OP's word as solid.

    It is also true that I have an issue with LEOs who act based upon only one side of the equation if for no other reason than it can create a false sense of security for the victim and worse, can actually make it worse.... as was apparently the case here.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting Cowart69
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    Thank you to everyone....I want to point out that all this information is as it was explained to me......the only thing I saw first hand was how upset the man was when I came tot he hospital to support my friend. My friend asked me not to give any information to the man and I told him I was not gonna do that and he got really really confrontation. Got right in my face and my boyfriend who was with me had to back him off.

    The other thing I found out....a new development today when I drove my friend to the ICU to feed her baby (the baby is being released to come home tomorrow and is going to my friends grandparents house) the man is running his mouth when he is going to see his baby daughter.....and is threatening to take the child. I think this is why Child Protective Services was called the other day.

    My friend wants to give him visittation but is now petrified that he is gonna steal the baby. This could end up getting really ugly at the grandparents house they think there is danger.
    Sigh. Hon, Mom has to understand that until the court says otherwise, Dad has equal rights to their mutual child. That means that both of them can, pretty much, take the baby wherever and whenever they want. That doesn't give him (or her) permission to walk into someone else's residence and snatch the child though - so Mom needs to understand that.

    If she can articulate that he has made this threat, she can of course try to get a restraining order involving the child - but she still has to be careful that she's not coming across as the pissed-off spouse willing to do anything to get rid of Dad.

    Find an attorney. First thing Monday morning. I mean it.

  6. #6
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    Jul 2015
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    Dog,

    I would really like to understand where you are coming from whether I agree with it or not.

    - While the judge to this point has sided with the dad......I think where my friend made a mistake was just not being humble and asking for help for a lawyer even if it meant paying back the money it cost later....one thing I do know about the man is he has been in court.....a LOT.......that was my friends first time in a court room and frankly she just clammed up......she needed represenation. When the lawyer was hired he took a look at the paperwork that was submitted and he depositioned her the paperwork was not written in a way so as to convey the reasons why a restraining order was needed........her lawyer still feels that they have a good case when the regular restraining hearing is held and it appears to be getting worse by the day.

    The social worker at the hospital has a legit function there and I dont think it is to give shrink counciling to the man.....she did need to do a interview with both my friend and the dad and she does have to report on that.......and from what I understand that report had real concerns. It extended into today as we found out he was kicked out of the ICU for a THIRD time....this time because the hospital wanted separate schedules so that both could see baby and they asked him to agree to a visit schedule....he refused it and the administrator for the hospital had him escorted out and this time he is not allowed back (once again.....this is what my friend is telling me)

    Now.....I ask you. Does this sound like someone who is not a danger? My friend IS trying to do this right......even though she is afraid of a grab and flight risk she wants to make sure that he has supervised visits and get more lenient as time goes on as long as he stops all this drama.

    Their attorney was hired this past Wed. Probably should have been done sooner.

    I honestly dont think she is trying to chase off the dad.....I think that there is legit concern that the dad considering doing something foolish.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    It's my perception - and since the court has already virtually sided with Dad, it doesn't look like I'm alone in that perception.
    That only means that the court found no immediate threat in her affidavit. That can mean that the affidavit was poorly crafted, or, there is no proof of any threat of harm. However, since the court did not dismiss the petition in its entirety, there was SOME merit found in it sufficient to warrant a hearing. Though, it is rare for a judge to dismiss a petition outright, only to deny the "temps" (the temporary restrictions pending a hearing).

    clearly, the OP is missing details and just as clearly, what has been said is probably not quite as it was laid out.
    I would tend to agree.

    It is also true that I have an issue with LEOs who act based upon only one side of the equation if for no other reason than it can create a false sense of security for the victim and worse, can actually make it worse.... as was apparently the case here.
    The officer typically knows only one side of an equation on any call he or she is responding to. The male half was not present here. Based upon what the complainant told him, he offered his observations and agreed to contact the male half in an effort to get him to get his account of events and encourage him stop the activities seen as harassment (presumably by phone, email, and/or text) which can be a violation of PC 653m - a misdemeanor crime. And, if the harassment were in person, additional offenses might apply. A TRO suggestions is also typical.

    The alternative is that we train officers to do nothing, allow the harassment to continue and perhaps escalate, and suffer greater accusations of not doing anything.

    I also agree that she should speak with an attorney to help her in this matter before it spirals even more out of control.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  8. #8
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    Obviously the hospital sees a problem as the hospital keeps escorting dad out...and hospitals tend to be pretty on top of the law. They have to be.

    I suspect that the reason why the judge isn't making temporary restraining orders is because the child is in the NCIU and therefore there is no emergency. Therefore apparently the court feels that there is time to hear the case fully, rather than making emergency orders.

    Some points that I think are being ignored in this thread is that the mom was 15 at the time that the dad got involved with her and he is 9 years older. Despite their marriage that might be a factor if she is still a minor, but if so, what the HECK were her parents thinking?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    Obviously the hospital sees a problem as the hospital keeps escorting dad out...and hospitals tend to be pretty on top of the law. They have to be.
    They tend to want to avoid disruption, and they tend to have every right to limit visitors and access to parts of the building. I suspect dad is not cooperating with what the hospital staff and the assigned social worker believes to be a reasonable visitation plan for the moment, and thus when he becomes obstinate, they escort him out. This is a situation we often see at a hospital here where this sort of thing happens, sadly, too often.

    I suspect that the reason why the judge isn't making temporary restraining orders is because the child is in the NCIU and therefore there is no emergency. Therefore apparently the court feels that there is time to hear the case fully, rather than making emergency orders.
    Well, I suspect that the plaintiff failed to articulate anything to convince the judge that he was a physical threat to mom or baby. Being a butthead (assuming he was accused of such actions) is not sufficient to issue a TRO.

    Some points that I think are being ignored in this thread is that the mom was 15 at the time that the dad got involved with her and he is 9 years older. Despite their marriage that might be a factor if she is still a minor, but if so, what the HECK were her parents thinking?
    I am sure that is a factor in so many ways ... legally, however, if they are married (and if legally wed then I suspect that she was legally emancipated), then her being a minor may play little to no part in this issue. Though, if she is still underage, the hospital may be concerned with the age matter even if the law is not. So, you're right in that it may play a part in the hospital scenario.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  10. #10
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    Default Re: My Friend Who Just Had a Baby is Being Harrassed by Her Soon to Be Ex Husband

    Because clearly I'm one of the few truly psychic posters here, I guarantee there is far more to this than has been presented. The most responsible thing we can do is repeat "Mom needs an attorney" another 50 or so times.

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