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  1. #1
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    Default Unclear Effective Date for Notice Ending a Tenancy

    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: Utah

    I'm asking on behalf of my son (and his roommate) - they are in their second year leasing a condo from private owner, currently, month to month for past year. Good relationship, no problems,rent paid on time, minimal need for anything to be replaced/repaired. According to lease, 30 day notice for termination of lease. I suggested they give a little longer since they would be leaving MIDDLE of month - Aug 15th. Gave notice (email) on May 19th for Aug 15th move out. Landlord decided he would sell property. Had someone stop by (unannounced) who overstated the "college student" conditions. Landlord was upset with verbal report. My son explained and landlord was okay, but did decide he needed to paint. June & July rent paid. Then landlord gave 30 day notice (email) on June 24th, but left it open when they needed to leave (sympathetic to their student/full time job situation) -my son asked, is that July 24th or July 31st or Aug 15th? Still vague answer - depends on if sell or re-lease. Today, landlord sent email - need you out by July 31st even tho he says he gave them a few extra days (past July 24th, I'm assuming), but since they paid rent they could stay to July 31st. Landlord arranged painting over this past weekend and started tearing up carpet. Boys knew about painting and moved everything for the painters and then left for weekend away. They did not know about the carpet (which will be done Aug 3rd pr Landlord) and the air conditioner was no longer working when they returned (that is against the Utah code - just mentioning as it's another thing to pursue).

    My question is: does my son's notice of move out August 15th given May 19th take precedence over the landlord's 30 day notice given June 24th? Son and roommate are willing to negotiate for at least through the weekend (and will pay daily rate), but it would be better for them to finish school/internship/finals and not have to sleep on someone's couch.

    Thanks!

  2. #2
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    Jun 2015
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    Default Re: Confusion on Giving Notice - Now Landlord Wants Sooner Move Out

    If lease calls,for 30"day notice ..then 30"days trumps the usual 15 day notice ....but where in UT rules or law does it say email counts as notice?

  3. #3
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    Mar 2013
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    Default Re: Confusion on Giving Notice - Now Landlord Wants Sooner Move Out

    Quote Quoting MtWalking
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    does my son's notice of move out August 15th given May 19th take precedence over the landlord's 30 day notice given June 24th?
    No.

    Landlord's notice trumps tenant's notice.

    Question: Go back to the lease. Does the lease say that it goes month to month on expiration with the same terms as expiring? If it doesn't then the termination notice reverts back to the 15 day statutory requirement so they are ahead of the game if they have to be out by July 31.

    They have no business hassling about this since they were given the notice over a month ago. They should have been prepared for move out this week.

    Quote Quoting MtWalking
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    Son and roommate are willing to negotiate for at least through the weekend (and will pay daily rate), but it would be better for them to finish school/internship/finals and not have to sleep on someone's couch.
    Might not be any choice there if the sale closes escrow soon. Do they know the date? If the new owner is going to occupy the unit, then they need to be out or it's going to cost them a great deal of money in penalties if the new owner can't move in to his new home on time and has to pay for lodging and storage of his property. You could be talking thousands of dollars.

  4. #4
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    Colorado
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    Default Re: Confusion on Giving Notice - Now Landlord Wants Sooner Move Out

    There isn't a lot in the Utah codes about anything rental related and certainly not email/written notices. Emails are "generally" accepted as written notice for small matters like this (depends on the judge and if anyone wants to fight it, however). My son gave about 85 days notice. The landlord gave a 30 day notice (what he titled the email). Lease is 1st of month to end of month - so as I read it - you give the notice before the end of the previous rental period is up, so it's at least 30 days. Does that make sense the way I worded it?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Confusion on Giving Notice - Now Landlord Wants Sooner Move Out

    Quote Quoting HRinDEVON
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    but where in UT rules or law does it say email counts as notice?
    Here's the Notice to Quit statute:

    http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE78B/htm/78B06_080500.htm

    The statute requires that one alternative is that a "copy" of the notice has to be delivered to the tenant personally.

    It does not distinguish between copy of a paper notice or copy of an email notice, just copy of notice so I suggest that OP and son not play games with the definition of copy or notice.

    Emails and texting are routinely being accepted by courts, too much so to take that risk.

    They received notice and they acknowledge that they received it so they aren't going to get anywhere by claiming notice wasn't proper.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Confusion on Giving Notice - Now Landlord Wants Sooner Move Out

    Yes, lease went month to month a year ago.

    Yes, they have been prepared to move and have back up plans. Just looking for a legal leg to stand on to get them through at least the weekend & get it properly cleaned also...

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    No.

    Landlord's notice trumps tenant's notice.

    Question: Go back to the lease. Does the lease say that it goes month to month on expiration with the same terms as expiring? If it doesn't then the termination notice reverts back to the 15 day statutory requirement so they are ahead of the game if they have to be out by July 31.

    They have no business hassling about this since they were given the notice over a month ago. They should have been prepared for move out this week.



    Might not be any choice there if the sale closes escrow soon. Do they know the date? If the new owner is going to occupy the unit, then they need to be out or it's going to cost them a great deal of money in penalties if the new owner can't move in to his new home on time and has to pay for lodging and storage of his property. You could be talking thousands of dollars.
    The property isn't listed for sale or rent yet. Landlord wants it all fixed up first - wants top dollar which is completely understandable and more difficult with tenants living there.

    You answered my question on whose notice trumps the other. I couldn't find anything in the lease or the Utah Code on that.

    The boys are still going to ask for the weekend to move - doesn't hurt to ask and the landlord has been pretty decent so they might get lucky.

    Thank you for your assistance!

    - - - Updated - - -

    Sorry - the email notice isn't an issue at all! I just included that info to be thorough.

    I like the ease of email (or online communication) personally, but...sometimes it easy to be vague (when you didn't intend to be) or misunderstood - especially as regards to the date the landlord really did want them to move out instead of saying (emailing), well, we'll wait and see and talk (email) about it. A phone conversation probably in retrospect would have cleared that question up completely, but email was the landlord's preferred/only method of communication. It's fine tho, they've been ready for July 24th or July 31st, etc - but the landlord wouldn't tell them until today (July 27th) that he really does mean July 31st.

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    Here's the Notice to Quit statute:

    http://le.utah.gov/code/TITLE78B/htm/78B06_080500.htm

    The statute requires that one alternative is that a "copy" of the notice has to be delivered to the tenant personally.

    It does not distinguish between copy of a paper notice or copy of an email notice, just copy of notice so I suggest that OP and son not play games with the definition of copy or notice.

    Emails and texting are routinely being accepted by courts, too much so to take that risk.

    They received notice and they acknowledge that they received it so they aren't going to get anywhere by claiming notice wasn't proper.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Confusion on Giving Notice - Now Landlord Wants Sooner Move Out

    Quote Quoting MtWalking
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    You answered my question on whose notice trumps the other. I couldn't find anything in the lease or the Utah Code on that.
    It's like giving two weeks notice at work and the employer walks you out the door the same day you gave the notice.

    Quote Quoting MtWalking
    View Post

    The boys are still going to ask for the weekend to move - doesn't hurt to ask and the landlord has been pretty decent so they might get lucky.
    That's all they can do.

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