Unintentional Shoplifting from an Employer

[eerelations]

Here are your options if they question you:

1. Refuse to speak (the old fifth amendment thing that doesn't legally apply to the workplace). They can then legally fire you and no lawyer in the world will be able to help you (because said firing will be legal).

2. Tell the truth. They can then legally fire you and no lawyer in the world will be able to help you (because said firing will be legal).

3. Lie to them. They can then legally fire you and no lawyer in the world will be able to help you (because said firing will be legal).

The only time a lawyer will be of any use to you is if you are formally charged with theft by the police.

[flyingron]

I don't have my 5th amendment at work? Now that sounds ridiculous.

Not rediculous at all. Maybe if you actually tried reading the Constitution rather than relying on what you learn in TV shows, you'd understand. The Fifth Amendment says (among other things), "nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself." You talking to your employer has nothing to do with being a witness against yourself in a criminal trial. Nor do you have any due process rights in most circumstances (another aspect of the fifth amendment) with regard to employment matters. Your boss is free to fire you for just about any reason including failing to answer his questions or even the suspicion of being a thief.

A lawyer might not have been a good idea, but he can't really do anything for you about your being fired. If you are contacted by the police or prosecutor, I would decline to talk to them (that you can do under the broad interpretation of the fifth) without legal assistance.

[llworking]

Bottom line...even if they believe you that you had no intention of stealing the item, you still probably would get fired for the simple reason that employees are not allowed to "hold" items...and you tried to "hold" an item.

[Firefire123]

I contacted a lawyer and her advice for me was to hire them and for them to walk in there with me so she can do all the speaking for me. Being fired is not the issue I know I will be but I'm trying to prevent having a petty theft charge on my record. Is this a smart decision or was hiring a lawyer a waste of money

[flyingron]

If the lawyer can convince the store not to file a criminal complaint, I guess it's worth it. Of course, there's no guarantee that he will be able to do so, but he has a better chance than your lame story.

[eerelations]

Waste of money. Walking in to your employer's office with a lawyer in tow is a hostile and aggressive action* and will only increase the likelihood you will be fired. And your lawyer can do nothing about this as it will be a legal termination. Your lawyer will also not be able to prevent your employer from contacting the police** about what you did, because there is nothing in law that could prevent your employer from doing this. Finally, your lawyer cannot prevent the police from charging you with something, because again, there's nothing in law that could prevent the police from doing this if they so choose.

Again, you would do better by waiting to see if the police lay charges against you, and if they do, then hire a lawyer.

*And please note your employer will be legally free to tell prospective future employers about this during reference checks. Prospective employers don't like to hear this sort of thing.

**Your employer has no authority to charge you with anything. Only the police can do this.

[DeputyDog]

**Your employer has no authority to charge you with anything. Only the police can do this.

Not really; When I'm working in loss prevention, *I* on behalf of the employer am the one charging. I sign the document that legally issues the charges. Any OTHER charges are charged by the police, not me, because they have the jurisdiction to do so and not I. Similarly, they do not have the jurisdiction to charge without my signature on the arrest document.

So, let's say we have an employee or customer who steals, then cocaine is found in their possession. You will see two charges (and in our court you can look these documents up online.) One will be the theft charge, and it will say that I, as LP, "came before the clerk of court and solemnly attest that _______(defendant) did knowingly take merchandise valued at $___, in violation of state code .." etc. Then, you will see the second charge that says "Police officer _______ came before the clerk of court and solemnly attest that _____ did knowingly possess cocaine, etc."

As was pointed out in another thread by Security Consultant and others, most of us are not aware of a precedent for LE or a prosecutor to pursue theft charges without the victim's consent and signature as the charging person.

[eerelations]

Not really; When I'm working in loss prevention, *I* on behalf of the employer am the one charging. I sign the document that legally issues the charges. Any OTHER charges are charged by the police, not me, because they have the jurisdiction to do so and not I. Similarly, they do not have the jurisdiction to charge without my signature on the arrest document.

So, let's say we have an employee or customer who steals, then cocaine is found in their possession. You will see two charges (and in our court you can look these documents up online.) One will be the theft charge, and it will say that I, as LP, "came before the clerk of court and solemnly attest that _______(defendant) did knowingly take merchandise valued at $___, in violation of state code .." etc. Then, you will see the second charge that says "Police officer _______ came before the clerk of court and solemnly attest that _____ did knowingly possess cocaine, etc."

As was pointed out in another thread by Security Consultant and others, most of us are not aware of a precedent for LE or a prosecutor to pursue theft charges without the victim's consent and signature as the charging person.

OK but would OP having a lawyer present prevent you from pressing charges?

[Firefire123]

I have contacted a lawyer and hired them on advice that "trying to go in and talk to them with a human approach to prevent any charges to begin with would be the best idea if I don't care about keeping my job"

[eerelations]

OK but would OP having a lawyer present prevent you from pressing charges?

...given that OP's "excuse" for appearing to shoplift from her employer was in fact an attempt to defraud her employer?

- - - Updated - - -

I have contacted a lawyer and hired them on advice that "trying to go in and talk to them with a human approach to prevent any charges to begin with would be the best idea if I don't care about keeping my job"

You do understand that your story explaining why you weren't actually shoplifting is an admission of an attempt to commit fraud?

- - - Updated - - -

You do understand that your story explaining why you weren't actually shoplifting is an admission of an attempt to commit fraud?

And that your employer may well bar the lawyer from attending the meeting?