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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    11

    Default Possible Admission of Error from an Officer Who Issued a Ticket

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

    I’m hoping to get some advice for my speeding ticket I received in Kirkland, Washington. I’m not sure if I should contest, mitigate or just pay this thing. I might have a case for contesting, but I’m hoping you guys can help me figure things out.

    While driving on an open 4 lane road with no traffic, I spotted a motorcycle police officer on a small business driveway. I glanced at my speedometer just to make sure I was ok, and I saw 40. The speed limit is 35. I thought not a big deal, but I was surprised when the officer pulled out behind me and pulled me over.

    She said I was being cited for speed of 48 mph. I told her that was very surprising since I had looked at my speedometer when I saw her and saw 40. She asked for my license, reg, insurance and went back to her motorcycle. It was 86 degrees that day, which is hot for Kirkland, and I saw her waiting in the shade while the info was being processed.

    When she returned, I again said I was very surprised at the reported speed and I asked “Is there a chance there was an error”. She said “There’s always a chance for error.” I asked how the speed was recorded, and she said LIDAR. She said she made a visual estimate that I was speeding, and then captured my speed using LIDAR. She said the LIDAR requires calibration, which is done every day. She said “There was no operator error, but there’s always a chance for error.”

    I explained that I thought I was going 40 and thought it was weird that I would be getting pulled over. She said “Yes, we generally don’t pull someone over for only going 5 over the limit, unless it’s a school zone because of the kiddies.”

    She then sent me on my way.

    There’s a chance I was speeding before I saw her, I can’t say for sure. I was hoping the admission of “chance for error” by the officer had some merit. Maybe the hot day messed with the LIDAR. Maybe I have no case, but I just wanted to seek this forums advice before I just give in.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    18,340

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from Officer in Kirkland, Washington

    There's a possibility that you were going faster than your speedometer reads if you have changed the tires to a different size from the factory tires

    This calculator will tell you your actual speed based on the different dimensions of the tires.

    You can probably get the original tire size from the owner's manual, door data plate, internet and compare to the tires you have now.

    https://www.tacomaworld.com/tirecalc...5r16-235-85r16

    Trouble is, you already admitted to breaking the law by going 40 in a 35 and you were probably recorded. You'll likely lose in court just for that.

    But there are people from WA here who know the system and might have some tips for you so stay tuned.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from Officer in Kirkland, Washington

    Thanks for the info. Regarding the speedometer, I'm fairly certain it is accurate. There are many speed limit signs with radar readouts of your current speed all over the place here and they always match my speedo.

    Regarding the 40 vs 35, I was thinking maybe at such a low % over the speed limit, maybe the ticket could get reduced to non-traffic, if that's even done.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from Officer in Kirkland, Washington

    Your best bet is to read through the Washington State procedural guide (traffic court section, stickied thread), file for contested, and request discovery, then redact you identifying information and post the result of your request to this thread.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from Officer in Kirkland, Washington

    Sounds good. I'm eligible for a Deferral. If I go with contested and things don't look good from the discovery, is it possible to change to mitigation and seek the deferral?
    I don't want to remind the officer to submit the report, so I'm waiting until after the 5 days from the citation to submit my response. Also, I'll be seeking a court date in August, since my July is looking like a mess.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from Officer in Kirkland, Washington

    There is no need to change from contested to mitigated. In fact changing to mitigated is a bad idea, since with mitigated you are admitting guilt in exchange for a lowered fine. It is still a conviction.

    The preferred method is to ask the judge if making pre-trial motions will remove your option to defer from the table. Most will say it is not removed. Some may remove it. Depends on the judge. If not, then proceed with your motions. If the motions are successful at securing a dismissal, great. If not, then invoke the deferral immediately, and before you offer any testimony at all. If any testimony is given, your trial has begun, and the start of the trial removes the deferral option. Up to the point you are still making pre-trial motions, your trial has not officially begun.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Apr 2015
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from an Officer Who Issued a Ticket

    The best thing you can do is get a copy of the police narrative and full report posted here with personal info removed from all forms. Allowing others to see if in fact their are any errors which would have your case dismissed. I'm not sure if you can see my post a had made awhile back but I was busted 51 in 35 and case dismissed only due to the other members that read and replied to my post with how to have it dismissed. Get it posted up here as soon as possible and my suggestion always contest. I was in court last week and walked in and out in 15 minutes like a Boss! I have beaten many other citations on my own but this was written much different than before and had me perplexed.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from an Officer Who Issued a Ticket

    Thanks for the help so far. I'm returning my citation tomorrow. Hopefully the officer dropped the ball and didn't submit in time. Long shot on that though. I'm pretty sure writing tickets on that street is her primary duty, and she probably doesn't do something like forget to file.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I dropped off the ticket today at the court house. I included a letter requesting a court date in August. When I handed it to the clerk, I asked if there would be a pre-trial hearing. She said no. I asked when I would be able to bring up my pre-trial motions. She said I was making this out to bigger than it is. She said this is a civil case, not a criminal. Only criminal cases get pre-trial hearings and pre-trial motions. I asked if I couldn’t make pre-trial motions, and that I would need to seek a deferral before the trial, then when would I have that opportunity. She said I would need to ask for deferral up front, before any part of the hearing. The judge first deals with any deferrals, and then deals with each “small contested hearing” after that. The clerk said I would meet with the judge, and the judge would hear my side of the story, and the officer’s side, and decide. I also asked if the clerk could check to see if the officer submitted the report and what the date of report was. She said that’s a police matter and she doesn’t handle that.

    So I’m very confused as to where I can contest the ticket based on not meeting certain infraction rules, such as LIDAR certification, etc. I guess that’s just part of my “story” I tell the judge versus a pre-trial motion. Is there even a discovery step?

    I’ve read quite a few of the cases posted on these forums, but this seems unusual. Hopefully someone has some comforting wise words out there to help me.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Mar 2010
    Location
    Snohomish, WA
    Posts
    1,588

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from an Officer Who Issued a Ticket

    You will make your motions as soon as your case is called. Most judges will ask if you have any. If not, then announce that you have pre-trial motions as soon as you are called up.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Possible Admission of Error from an Officer Who Issued a Ticket

    The clerk of the court made it sound like the process is:

    1. Judge asks if anyone wants to seek a deferral.
    2. Judge processes these deferrals.
    3. Judge tries the remaining cases, no deferral requests are possible once you pass step 1.

    Also, the clerk said there are no pre-trial motions. It's just you tell your side, the officer tells their side and the judge makes a decision. Maybe the clerk is blowing smoke here? I'm going to see a contested hearing latest this month. Is it worth it to seek additional clarification from the clerk in the mean time?

    Since I requested a trial date in August, I'm not sure if I will get my notice any time soon, and so I probably can't do any sort of discovery until then either. Just a warning if the thread goes dark.

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