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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    I suppose it depends on how much you like to gamble, and whether you signed any admission or agreement to pay. By NOT paying you could turn the $300-ish assessment into an $800 collections matter that will affect your credit rating and future.

    So, how lucky do you feel?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    Do you have any actual useful information or do you want to just repeat the same old nonsense. Palmer Reifler, the "law firm" that many of the big retailers, including Walmart employs has taken less than 10 cases to court. There's big business in perpetrating the myth that something will happen to you if you don't pay.

    Palmer Reifler isn't concerned about due process or the law either. They've aggressively abused people whose prosecutions have been dismissed when shown that they are factually innocent. These outfits are as scummy as their related debt collection brethren. Note that the prelitigation escalation of legal fees has not been shown to actually be legal in many states.

    Absent an actual lawsuit and judgement there's not going to be any impact on your credit report.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    441

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    Do you have any actual useful information or do you want to just repeat the same old nonsense. Palmer Reifler, the "law firm" that many of the big retailers, including Walmart employs has taken less than 10 cases to court. There's big business in perpetrating the myth that something will happen to you if you don't pay.

    Palmer Reifler isn't concerned about due process or the law either. They've aggressively abused people whose prosecutions have been dismissed when shown that they are factually innocent. These outfits are as scummy as their related debt collection brethren. Note that the prelitigation escalation of legal fees has not been shown to actually be legal in many states.

    Absent an actual lawsuit and judgement there's not going to be any impact on your credit report.
    We do not use Palmer Reifler.

    As I said, regardless of what has happened or not happened in the past, the current landscape is changing. Believe me or don't.

    In a lawsuit, the "escalation of legal fees" is absolutely legal; our lawyers bill at somewhere around $500/hour. With them even getting involved, a civil demand can go from $200 (at the lowest level) to $700 in the blink of an eye. Again, believe me or don't.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    This is a true story. I personally know some of the people involved.

    A group of teenage girls are in Walmart. One of them attempted to shoplift. All of the girls were taken into a room by LP. Their parents were called to come and get them. They were banned from Walmart, for life, and all of them received civil demand letters. One of the parents contacted an attorney (civil attorney not criminal attorney) and was advised NOT to pay the civil demand. The attorney called it "no better than extortion". His reasons were 1) only one of the girls was involved in actual shoplifting and 2) they never got past the registers therefore never had the opportunity to pay for the goods.

    Since then all of the girls are regular shoppers at Walmart without a problem although I am sure that if one of them was ever stupid enough to shoplift that the hammer would come down on them HARD. The parent who refused to pay did get one collection call about the civil demand letter a few months later, but after she repeated what the attorney told her, they hung up and that was the last she ever heard.

    I understand why retailers feel the need to fund their loss prevention activities by issuing civil demand letters. It actually makes sense to me on an economic/business level. However in this instance I agreed with the parent who refused to pay. Her child did not participate in any shoplifting, was not even suspected of any shoplifting but was merely singled out because she was part of a group where someone shoplifted. In fact, the LP at Walmart admitted that it appeared that none of the other girls were really aware of what was going on.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    in alto mare
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    I do see upon some quick research that a lot of lawyers recommend not paying the civil demand- but what do you do if they get a judgment? What a slam on your credit history.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    Quote Quoting geek
    View Post
    I do see upon some quick research that a lot of lawyers recommend not paying the civil demand- but what do you do if they get a judgment? What a slam on your credit history.
    Yep, that is the downside. There is a risk involved. That is what the retailers hope for, is that the amount of the civil judgment will not be enough to be worth the risk. I think that if someone is going to decide not to pay, they need to really be looking at whether or not the retailer can actually prove that the person was doing something wrong when pulled in by LP. We know that a lot of times its questionable...like it was in the case I talked about. The mom KNEW that her daughter didn't do anything. The mom knew it because the LP person admitted it. Her daughter was deemed guilty by association.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    441

    Default Re: Stole but return the item, am i being charge with civil dispute?

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    Yep, that is the downside. There is a risk involved. That is what the retailers hope for, is that the amount of the civil judgment will not be enough to be worth the risk. I think that if someone is going to decide not to pay, they need to really be looking at whether or not the retailer can actually prove that the person was doing something wrong when pulled in by LP. We know that a lot of times its questionable...like it was in the case I talked about. The mom KNEW that her daughter didn't do anything. The mom knew it because the LP person admitted it. Her daughter was deemed guilty by association.
    I don't question that the story you tell is real; I'm sure it is, and it does happen. However, the statement that "We know that a lot of times its questionable" is not remotely true. Most companies' policies demand some sort of PARTICIPATION in the theft, not merely someone being present. That is a standard of sorts; That doesn't mean that people merely present can't be arrested and even convicted - they can be - but most national, reputable companies don't want to risk the situation that you've described.

    I have no idea what Wal-Mart's actual policies are and whether the LP agent in question followed them or not.

    Still, in this discussion of civil demand, the vast majority of people who receive civil demands are not people who did nothing wrong and were simply present. Most have stolen something. In the instance that you mentioned, that advice made sense. That's not the type of most of these cases though; and in this thread, OP admitted to shoplifting.

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