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  1. #1
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    May 2015
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    Default Disputing Paternity After the Limitations Period for Challenging a Judgment

    My question involves child support in the State of: Louisiana

    I've noted from the tone that a majority of the people that give advice here are definitely aggressive when a man claims he's being falsely trapped into child support. And I'm sure that's with good reason. Let's assume for a moment, that someone wasn't fully aware of how the system works, and the reason you separated in the first place was due to indiscretion of loyalty to partner. This person was able to gain judgment against me, and the 3 year window of challenge closed before they even notified me 3 states away that a filing had occurred... My last contact with that person was they had got an annulment, so please don't file one, and I could join Benjamin Franklin for a Kite flying session..... By the way, I was just getting out of the Army and becoming a "single parent" myself with my two boys to raise. So when she had fooled around, I was glad that she had left.

    Now, I can't win a case by appealing to you online, and that's not why I'm laying this out with full disclosure. There are good people, who get trapped in these cases. Like it or not, the steam roller rolls. And sometimes good people get caught.

    Because I did not challenge it within the 3 year window, I'm now stuck with a life long payment for this child. I actually have refused to pay it! I still believe in a fair justice system and I'm the one who wanted and was willing to pay for a paternity DNA testing. The child is a special needs child. Yeah, it makes this case even tougher. I struggled hard getting my boys raised with no support, and out of the house and onto a productive life. Both serve in the Air Force with distinction.

    But now, I am still riddled with this mess. It's not small.. OK, it HUGE! In fact, It's so large and turned into so much that I'm overwhelmed.

    I fought it in Colorado where the state requested Louisiana, let me rephrase that, Colorado "asked" Louisiana if they would submit a DNA test and Louisiana refused and got Colorado to garnish my wages. I then fought them in Georgia where I won and the state of Georgia refused to enforce the judgment. Then I moved to the Washington DC area after my kids left the house, and immediately Louisiana attempts to file against me in Maryland where my sister lives. "Assuming" I had moved in with her. I was living in Virginia. Somehow, they still "threatened" me with a bench warrant if I did not appear, even though I had drove to the Court's Officer and proved to him by driver's license and two bills that I was a Virginia resident. Within a month, Maryland dropped the case.

    Now, here I sit 3 years later, and now they have wiped out over $4,500 from my sole proprietor business account, personal account and savings account... If you have made it this far, thank you for reading the whole historical roller-coaster. My challenge isn't whether I can now beat this thing. It's quite obvious they will haunt me until I die. Also, I received notification via my house address, that due to the special needs, it will now be a lifelong support. Not just child support. Another court decision without giving me the right to challenge.

    First thing you should know, her father is a grand Mason. They live in small town Louisiana. I have been told if I return, it would be the last state I lived in. I guess one can read many things into that. I for one believe him. So, I have attempted to not get stuck in Louisiana and rot away in jail or God knows where else. And tried instead to fight this from afar.

    My problem is, I don't have near enough money to even begin fighting these types of incredibly expensive court cases. And, since its a civil case, I cannot have a states attorney appointed for me. But I can't keep living this way. I know the tough love thing is to just call me a JERK and tell me to go work 3 jobs and PAY IT! Is this really the only option for me? How can someone who only wants to have real justice prevail? Our courts are so screwed up now and its money, money, money! And those in the legal system will flat tell you without blinking an eye, Chris, its not about right or wrong, its about the legal system and a pragmatic adherence so that it can function.

    If you wish to just shout back negative comments, please, go ahead, I've already heard them all.. But, if there is just ONE person out there who might be able to give me genuine advice, I would sincerely appreciate hearing from you. Honestly, this has been the darkest cloud over me and the only thing I've ever done that would even put me in this type of a mess. I sincerely need help. I thank anyone in advance who can just offer me some advice....

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    Quote Quoting chrisban35
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    Let's assume for a moment, that someone wasn't fully aware of how the system works, and the reason you separated in the first place was due to indiscretion of loyalty to partner.
    Let's not assume anything. As the facts matter, let's just work with the actual facts.

    Paternity is established by (a) marriage, (b) voluntary acknowledgment of paternity, or (c) a paternity action filed in court. You need to tell us how paternity was established in your case. You also need to identify the state where paternity was established as your reference to a "3 year window of challenge" suggests that it is not Louisiana. See Louisiana R.S. Sec. 399.1(A) ("The proceeding [to set aside or vacate a paternity order] shall be brought within a two-year period commencing with the date on which the adjudicated father knew or should have known of a judgment that established him as the father of the child or commencing with the date the adjudicated father knew or should have known of the existence of an action to adjudicate the issue of paternity, whichever is first.").
    Quote Quoting chrisban35
    I'm now stuck with a life long payment for this child. I actually have refused to pay it!
    Then you are dooming yourself to a lifetime of problems, including the potential to be prosecuted for criminal nonsupport.
    Quote Quoting chrisban35
    How can someone who only wants to have real justice prevail?
    As you have chosen to complain extensively about your situation, but have not shared the context of how you got into the situation, nobody here can answer that. You need to share the relevant facts, and whether or not you believe it is fair that you have to pay child support does not have any relevance to the legal issues.
    Quote Quoting chrisban35
    And those in the legal system will flat tell you without blinking an eye, Chris, its not about right or wrong, its about the legal system and a pragmatic adherence so that it can function.
    You are speaking of what happens after the initial court proceedings, after the expiration of the period for seeking timely post-judgment relief, after which the legal system is going to presume that you were giving your full Due Process rights but either (a) lost on the merits in court or (b) chose not to exercise them in a timely manner. No court system on the planet lets people continually re-litigate cases. Eventually judgments do become final.

    So: No more complaining -- it doesn't help you and it doesn't help us. Tell us what actually happened.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    I had a full novella of my own, and the server failed me. I sob at the wretchedness before me.

    (too much?)

    Okay, what I got from this was:

    OP was adjudicated or otherwise became the legal father of a child ... somewhere. I'm not entirely sure it was LA. Did not challenge it at all, or did not challenge it properly.

    He then tried to fight the LA side of things while he was in Georgia and Colorado. He did not do this correctly.

    And that's why he's in this mess. Refused flat out (which is essentially giving the court the middle finger - not a good way to endear yourself to the family court system) to pay, spent too long essentially "hiding" from it, and is now finally conceding that he's on the hook potentially forever.

    Not sure what his legal question is beyond that.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    First, thanks for the reply,

    Not sure what his legal question is beyond that.
    I understand the window to challenge was closed. The problem is, it was closed without my initial knowledge that it was opened in the first place. Which I brought out in my first challenge in Colorado. And was told, we are not "obligated" to inform you when a judgment has been placed against you. Even though, I was told that when she filled out the initial paperwork, that my last known address and contact information had to be included. She knew that information, she knew my complete whereabouts, and it's my initial gut feeling that she gave that information to child services, and it was "they" who strategically held it while the clock ran out.

    Family services isn't a picnic either. They're incredibly nasty, incredibly aggressive and on the attempts that I have had with dealing with them, it was extremely one sided outwith "any" considerations to getting to the fundamental truth and responsibilities of this child. Again, if I'm a jerk and people who read this think I "deserve" the punishment, so be it. But what about all the other family members surrounding this issue? The potential siblings? The family? Etc? What about the medical needs of this child? I certainly got the impression this entire "system" were solely for the health and welfare of that child. If this is true, and the child is a special needs child, is he more at risk of potentially getting illness or sickness where a paternal parent may play a key role?

    I'm still not understanding why the court system that deals with families wouldn't want to have the facts that make this absolute. According to Louisiana's laws, if the paternity test is done and I am the father, that would help in all ways. It's always been the "only" request I've ever asked for. Why is it that the state wouldn't want this? It just makes so much sense when attempting to resolve these types of family issues.

    Being X-Army, I absolutely understand pragmatic process. I know it's purpose, its productive nature and I also know it's core reasoning, which is why I believed in the military's strict adherence to things like "safety" and "protocol". But even in a system as well oiled as the military, it still knew there was a need for corrective oversight. The judicial system, civil or otherwise, should have these same over-sites so as to ensure the fundamental principle values in which it serves. I sincerely just want to know if I am the father.

    Avoidance, yes, I am guilty as charged. Someone who usually doesn't run from things, I actually found myself running from this one. The amount of FORCE-ABLE power, and lack of genuine fairness was so overwhelming during that initial confrontation in Colorado, I became human... I avoided that amount of massive aggressive pain.

    But again, defending myself here, is for naught. I do so only to try and work out some foundational basis of fairness and justice in my mind. And to try and get others to be a little more understanding that good people get caught in things that become bigger than themselves. And, like anyone caught in this HEAVY situation, I just want to know what is my best course of action in working my way out.

    Yes, I got myself here, and yes, I was probably stupid for not standing inside and fighting it out in Colorado. But, I can't change the past, only attempt to sew together some kind of life, bring some kind of closure that please both the obligation and the surrounding people effected by it.

    Again, I sincerely appreciate any information that might be available to help.. Not what is common in these cases, not what usually happens, but "anything" that will help me get this under control and heading towards a resolution. Do I have "any" grounds, any avenues to stand on, any potential "things" which could help me work with, directly/indirectly with Louisiana to make this easier to bite off now? Easier to get to a resolution where they get what they want, and I can still have a life at all?

    Good people to stupid things.. But it doesn't mean that we're still not "willing" to return and create a solution. It just means we've felt like "victims" and acted accordingly. Now, I am afraid. I "do" feel extremely mistreated and abused. Before I jump back in the cage with this massive gorilla, I just want to know, is there any avenues to help me not get totally pummeled? I hope that doesn't seem like someone asking for too much.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting geek
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    What you don't get is that your time to present the truth to the court came and went. That ship sailed. Why did you dilly-dally all that time?

    You might be stuck.
    Again, I was not aware that a filing had occurred until after the time elapsed. Louisiana brought the garnishment to my paycheck in Colorado just after the elapsed time. The lady with the family court informed me that I had missed it by months. But how can you miss something you don't know exists? Again, I had brought enough evidence to my X-wife and she didn't deny any of it. I was not even thinking she would ever attempt to file me as the father after all the evidence.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I can't remember but isn't this covered in biology and/or sex ed? I've been outta school for a while, maybe it's not covered anymore?
    - These are the replies I knew would come.. Biology also teaches us that "any" male interacting with a fertile female can be the actual father. If you would actually read back up through the historical events, you would see that I wasn't the only male in this equation.

    Please refrain from comments which simply wish to ridicule. They're unbecoming and don't help me or this scenario. Other replies have been short and somewhat barbed, but at least they have been aimed at things which I had to except as dumb actions on my part. So they were warranted. Your comment just wishes to insult, which speaks to character.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    Quote Quoting chrisban35
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    - These are the replies I knew would come.. Biology also teaches us that "any" male interacting with a fertile male can be the actual father.
    A fertile male interacting with a fertile male cannot father anything. A fertile male interacting with a woman on Wednesday isn't going to be the father of a pregnancy announced on Friday. That bun was already cooking in the oven. No test that I have ever heard of is effective only 2 days after intercourse. Heck, fertilization takes longer than that.

    Quote Quoting chrisban35
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    If you would actually read back up through the historical events, you would see that I wasn't the only male in this equation.
    I was well aware of that, which means there is no way in heck you were the father. None. Zero. Nada.

    Quote Quoting chrisban35
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    Your comment just wishes to insult, which speaks to character.
    You thinking you got someone pregnant after knocking boots 2 days before is one of those dumb actions on your part. So if you can take comments on those, you can be a big boy and take comments on that too.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    I will give you one piece of advice to protect your business. Incorporate, make an S-corp election, and keep the business's money in the S-corp bank account, under the S-corp EIN. You WILL have to pay yourself a regular salary, (with proper withholding and the whole bit) but at least the cash flow needed to keep the business going won't be at risk of being suddenly seized.

    Other than that, talk to an attorney in Louisiana. I doubt that you can go anywhere with this, but that would be your only hope.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    I will give you one piece of advice to protect your business. Incorporate, make an S-corp election, and keep the business's money in the S-corp bank account, under the S-corp EIN. You WILL have to pay yourself a regular salary, (with proper withholding and the whole bit) but at least the cash flow needed to keep the business going won't be at risk of being suddenly seized.

    Other than that, talk to an attorney in Louisiana. I doubt that you can go anywhere with this, but that would be your only hope.
    Thank you for that advice... That's the other solid challenge I had. I was sole proprietor, and I should've "S corp'ed"! People don't understand once you get to a certain level of professional business stature, it's near impossible to get hired. That level of professional always gets a security and financial check done by the potential employer, and we both know how to avoid hire with political correctness when we see someone in these situation. It leads people with these types of situations to open their own business. But, as you mention, it also makes us highly susceptible to these types of issues.

    But I will now have to S-Corp, if I can recover. That's going to be the trouble for me. I had all my bank accounts with one bank. One swipe and I am literally with nothing.

    That raises another very interesting dichotomy or quirkiness in the legal system. You can only garnish someone's wages up to a certain percent, so they have money to live on, yet, you can totally wipe it out once it reaches the bank account???

    It's like legal abortion, because an unborn child is not a life, and if charged with vehicular manslaughter with a pregnant woman, you are charged with 2 counts of murder.. Those within the legal system that so "aggressively" protect it's actions, need to genuinely understand, that its not a perfect system either. And it needs challenged just like anything else to make it better.

    I sincerely believe that family courts is one of the ultimate areas where the legal system has totally lost its way. There is "way" too many activities that happen in the family court system that is not controlled by a judge, but by individuals working within the capacity of the system. There's no accountability or recourse to challenge their actions, and when it comes to he said, she said, you are "trumped" immediately against any and all attempts to claim "rights" or "fairness"...

    For example, when I attempted to place the challenges. I still think the family courts should "openly" accept anything which will 100% reveal the truth. Truth shouldn't have a statute of limitations in court systems where we know they are not perfect.

    Thanks for the advice, I was already frustrated at myself for not taking on that protection in the first place.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    Quote Quoting llworking
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    You WILL have to pay yourself a regular salary, (with proper withholding and the whole bit) but at least the cash flow needed to keep the business going won't be at risk of being suddenly seized.
    There is no law that requires the S-corporation pay a salary other than what federal and state minimum wage laws require, and typically the owner/officers of the S-corporation are exempt persons and minimum wage laws will not apply to that. Federal tax law does not compel any salary get paid, and no law in any state requires that either (again, other than minimum wage law), so far as I’m aware.

    What federal tax law does provide, however, is that any distributions that are actually paid to an S-corporation shareholder who also works for the corporation are first treated as compensation for the personal services the shareholder provided, i.e. as wage or salary income subject to withholding and employment taxes.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    First, thank you for your response. I will quote you, then reply...

    Paternity is established by (a) marriage, (b) voluntary acknowledgment of paternity, or (c) a paternity action filed in court.
    - I don't know how it came to pass. As mentioned with the other response below, I was under the impression that I had uncovered enough about her "activities" with other men, that she wouldn't challenge me in child support. When she left, she also had said she had already got an annulment to the marriage. We were married in South Dakota, and she flew back to Louisiana and it was from there that she informed me about the annulment. Also, based on what you have given with "Louisiana R.S. Sec. 399.1(A)" - I stand corrected. I was told 3 years, but obviously this states otherwise.

    Then you are dooming yourself to a lifetime of problems, including the potential to be prosecuted for criminal nonsupport.
    - As also mentioned from the other response below, that's the realization that I am faced with now. That I HAVE TO just deal with it. My question is in trying to determine if I have "any" rights or leverages to "still" fight for a paternity test. Well beyond my own thoughts, the surrounding family members, the child and any medical needs that may arise, that too "deserves" the truth to be known. I cannot believe that our current legal system is so pragmatic and protective of itself, that it does not have these elements of finding the truth at its fundamental core. I'm hoping that it still has some sense of moral responsibility to the truth.


    As you have chosen to complain extensively about your situation, but have not shared the context of how you got into the situation, nobody here can answer that.
    - I apologize if it seems like I did not include that information. I was attempting to keep it simple and short, but you're right, details matter. This is the beginning scenario and what transpired that brings me to the current child support judgment.

    I returned home from the Army while stationed in Korea, after I had found out my then wife, was doing bad things, and my children were in jeopardy. Upon returning, it was true. I got a uncontested divorce and full custody of my children (In Louisiana), and while in the process of getting out of the Army there, I was introduced to her. We met on a Wednesday, on Friday she informed me she was pregnant, on Monday I sat with her and her parents and told them I would marry their daughter and take care of the child.

    We moved back to South Dakota, got married there. Within 3 months, I had to ask her to leave(then still pregnant with kid), she was extremely abusive to my children, and we could not reconcile. She flew back to Louisiana, was put on bed rest by doctor for high risk pregnancy. While out smoking, drinking and sitting playing Bingo with her mother, she went into early labor. The child was born extremely premature. I flew back to Louisiana to try and be supportive and also wanted to find out about these hunches and rumors that had been circulating about her pregnancy. During my time there, I interviewed the supposed men she was accused of being with, who to my surprise, openly admitted to interactions with her both before we were together, and after. Then, her sister, aunt and father warned me of her "wild side". At this point in time, I moved on after confronting her with the information I had gathered and her not wanting to talk about it and or challenge it.

    At this point, I thought I had proven that the child was in question, and that I was starting to look like a pawn in her game. It was about a month from me moving on that I received the letter mentioned about the annulment. about 3 years or 3 and a half years later, is when my employee in Colorado received the judgment to garnish my wages. I was still young and too stupid to hire an attorney, believing I could work directly with the family court system as the person below mentions. They informed me of a challenge, which I went to their site, found the form, filled it out and faxed to them. They claimed, they did not receive it. So I mailed it physically. Again, they claimed they did not receive, it. I sent it "certified mail" and the letter came back with refusal to sign. I called them, and was informed that they could not accept certified mail and that is why they refused it.

    The garnishment went through, and I was stuck paying it. I was also informed that my rights at that time to challenge were passed. And that I should just pay it and accept that I was the father.

    The rest you know...


    You are speaking of what happens after the initial court proceedings, after the expiration of the period for seeking timely post-judgment relief, after which the legal system is going to presume that you were giving your full Due Process rights but either (a) lost on the merits in court or (b) chose not to exercise them in a timely manner. No court system on the planet lets people continually re-litigate cases. Eventually judgments do become final.

    So: No more complaining -- it doesn't help you and it doesn't help us. Tell us what actually happened.
    I understand this. It's not always as simple as it sounds and good people make dumb mistakes. What I am attempting to figure out is if there is "anything" I can do to protect myself? To try and get the truth to the surface, and to try and unravel the incredible mess that, "I" put myself in by running from the power of the act placed over me. Liked I've said above, I can't believe that a court system would not want to have the truth be the sounding principle in these cases.

    If there is need for any more information, please let me know. Again, thank you for the response.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bank Account Wiped Out. What Now

    I'm still gobsmacked that you believed you'd gotten her pregnant and she knew about it all during a 3 day period.

    Now, it's not about the court system being fair or unfair. You did have the opportunity to straighten things out - if you did things wrong, or plain old forgot or ignored it, that's not the system's fault.

    The only thing I can suggest is that you seek assistance from an attorney. I don't see any legal reason as to why you would be able to overturn and readdress paternity after the allotted time has passed, but there's only one way for you to find out.

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