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  1. #1
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    Oct 2013
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    Default Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Leave

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: WA

    My husband works for a very large aerospace company and their policy is if you get 3 CAM’s (Corrective Action Memos) in 1 year then you are terminated. He received 2 last year for attendance and just received another one. The background on this third one is that he was off for 3 weeks under FMLA but was really not happy with his job and just told his manager his back was acting up and went and saw his doctor with the ruse that he needed his back to be looked at, but just needed a note. Anyways, after 3 weeks of not going in, he decides he wants to go into inpatient alcohol rehab to get sober and get his head together. He decides this on March 20th and calls his manager and tells him what’s up. He then tells me that all is good and his manager is fine with it. He tells his manager that a bed may open up as early as that day for him or it may not be until the following week. I am not sure if he reiterated to his manager that he would not be in at all even if he doesn’t get called in until later in the week.

    Well he has no more contact with his manager the next week and he doesn’t go into treatment until March 27th, so a full week since he talked to his manager. They aren’t allowed to have their cell phones there so he leaves it home with me so that I can get any messages. On March 30th I see he gets a text from his manager saying “I haven’t received a request for FMLA. When will you get it to me?”. I relay this message to him later that day and he says he will call him the next day. Apparently he didn’t call him as he didn’t realize the urgency of it and that they didn’t have him covered for the week of the 23rd-27th, even though his manager had told him no problem. He goes back to work after he gets out of rehab on April 17th. On this day they tell him that he is unexcused for that week of the 23rd-27th. He tells them that his manager said he was in the clear, but it is the next level manager that won’t clear it no matter what unless he gets a note from a doctor. Well this was the week while he was waiting for a bed and never knew when they were going to call him so he can’t get a note from the doctor at rehab because he wasn’t there yet nor can he get a note from his regular doctor because he hadn’t seen him that week either. He has talked to the union rep and they basically said that he needs to write a letter to another higher up person and see if the CAM can be cancelled. The managers are even telling him to just get a note from the doctor even though he didn’t see one, which is unethical. He also said his HR rep was there as a witness when he was talking with his manager and the manager said that he okayed it but just didn’t do anything about it. I’m not sure of all the details.

    If the CAM doesn’t get cancelled, he will either be fired or, as an alternative, can only keep his job if he admits he has a problem and goes back into treatment for the full 21 days (whereas last time he only stayed 14 days because that’s all that insurance covered). I find this to be detrimental to our well-being because I don’t even know if treatment will be covered again, and they only cover 14 days so we’d have to pay out of pocket for the other 7 days. Plus, he would go through the same thing he just did when he doesn’t have the need to go back in because he hasn’t had a drop to drink since leaving rehab almost a month ago. This also means that there will be no income from him during this time just as there was no income from him last time he was in treatment and I will have to cover all the bills due to his manager saying this whole thing was fine but not following through with paperwork. I also have plans to be out of town for a week and that means that no one will be home for a week which means we have to pay someone to come and take care of our cats and yard which means even more money we have to spend. We shouldn’t have to spend any money for any of this. It almost seems easier for him to quit his job if he has to go through all this again.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    You best find yourself a cat-sitter.

    And you can quit posting here, there and everywhere. It won't help you.

  3. #3
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    The gist of your story appears to be this:

    Your husband doesn't like his job, and lied about having back pain in order to get some time off. He was able to get his doctor to disable him from work for three weeks, and his employer accommodated his leave under the FMLA. Right before the end of that three week leave ended, he decided to go to alcohol rehab. He contacted his employer and indicated that he was going into rehab. He didn't tell them that there would be a delay between when his approved period of disability ended and when he would be accepted into rehab. His employer expressed a willingness to accommodate his extended leave, apparently under the impression that his admission to rehab would be immediate.

    Your husband was accepted into a rehab program a week later. His employer contacted him to ask that he submit his FMLA paperwork for the additional leave. You received the message and relayed it to him. He chose to ignore it until much later; perhaps even until he returned to work in mid-April. His employer noticed that there was a discrepancy in his documentation, with his being cleared for work during the week of March 23, and has asked that he document that he was disabled from work during that period -- as if he was not disabled from work, he should have been showing up and doing his job even if he was planning to later enter rehab.

    Does that about sum it up?

    Your husband has been advised to get a note from his doctor about his being medically disabled from work due to alcoholism, with his employers suggesting that they would find such a note to be adequate to bridge the gap between his two periods of disability, but (even though he has no problem lying to his employer about his back condition, or lying to his doctor to get out of work due to faked or exaggerated back symptoms) he believes it would be "unethical" to get such a note from his doctor. Except if he was in fact disabled during that period due to his addiction, and if a doctor was sufficiently familiar with his condition to render the opinion that he was disabled, there would be nothing unethical about the doctor's issuing such a letter.

    Also, given that he applied for rehab and went through their intake and screening process, the rehab center should have an assessment of his condition in relation to the period of time at issue. But you say that he left the program after 14 days, supposedly due to a lack of insurance coverage. Looking at your dates, he went into rehab on March 27, left rehab on April 10, and returned to work on April 17 -- so is the actual problem with getting a letter from the rehab center that his employer might conclude was able to return to work as of April 13th?

    I'm not sure how or why his re-entry into rehab would cancel out his CAM, although perhaps that's somehow built into the union contract. If the only way he can avoid facing the consequences of his prior actions is to find a way back into rehab, then that would appear to be the means available to him to keep his job. If he doesn't want to pay for rehab if his insurance won't cover another round, it sounds like it's time for him to start applying for new jobs. Given that he hates his job, that's not a bad idea anyway.

  4. #4
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    Oct 2013
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    The gist of your story appears to be this:

    Your husband doesn't like his job, and lied about having back pain in order to get some time off. He was able to get his doctor to disable him from work for three weeks, and his employer accommodated his leave under the FMLA. Right before the end of that three week leave ended, he decided to go to alcohol rehab. He contacted his employer and indicated that he was going into rehab. He didn't tell them that there would be a delay between when his approved period of disability ended and when he would be accepted into rehab. His employer expressed a willingness to accommodate his extended leave, apparently under the impression that his admission to rehab would be immediate.

    Your husband was accepted into a rehab program a week later. His employer contacted him to ask that he submit his FMLA paperwork for the additional leave. You received the message and relayed it to him. He chose to ignore it until much later; perhaps even until he returned to work in mid-April. His employer noticed that there was a discrepancy in his documentation, with his being cleared for work during the week of March 23, and has asked that he document that he was disabled from work during that period -- as if he was not disabled from work, he should have been showing up and doing his job even if he was planning to later enter rehab.

    Does that about sum it up?

    Your husband has been advised to get a note from his doctor about his being medically disabled from work due to alcoholism, with his employers suggesting that they would find such a note to be adequate to bridge the gap between his two periods of disability, but (even though he has no problem lying to his employer about his back condition, or lying to his doctor to get out of work due to faked or exaggerated back symptoms) he believes it would be "unethical" to get such a note from his doctor. Except if he was in fact disabled during that period due to his addiction, and if a doctor was sufficiently familiar with his condition to render the opinion that he was disabled, there would be nothing unethical about the doctor's issuing such a letter.

    Also, given that he applied for rehab and went through their intake and screening process, the rehab center should have an assessment of his condition in relation to the period of time at issue. But you say that he left the program after 14 days, supposedly due to a lack of insurance coverage. Looking at your dates, he went into rehab on March 27, left rehab on April 10, and returned to work on April 17 -- so is the actual problem with getting a letter from the rehab center that his employer might conclude was able to return to work as of April 13th?

    I'm not sure how or why his re-entry into rehab would cancel out his CAM, although perhaps that's somehow built into the union contract. If the only way he can avoid facing the consequences of his prior actions is to find a way back into rehab, then that would appear to be the means available to him to keep his job. If he doesn't want to pay for rehab if his insurance won't cover another round, it sounds like it's time for him to start applying for new jobs. Given that he hates his job, that's not a bad idea anyway.
    Actually it was clarified to me more by my husband's letter he wrote up to a union guy. He DID indeed tell his manager that he may go into rehab as early as that afternoon or it may not be until the following week. He told his boss he had a highly distressed mind and would not be able to perform his job correctly. His boss then told him to call the hotline and have them do an evaluation on him and they would put him on medical leave. He said he already did that and that they would not put him on leave until he was admitted to rehab. He then asked his manager if it would be possible to be put on admin leave until he was admitted to the hospital. His boss said "I can do that for you but let me check with xxx and get back to you." Approximately 45 minutes later, his boss called back and stated "You're good to go" and wished him good luck with treatment.

    His boss even admitted that he did say he'd put him on admin leave but then didn't follow through and now HIS boss won't allow him to do it and would fire my husband over something that my husband's boss did wrong.

    The problem isn't the time after he got out of rehab, it's that week before he went into treatment. But you think if he goes ahead and asks the doctor who did his initial assessment on March 27 for a note saying he wasn't fit that week prior before he went in, that that would be ethical? Even though this doctor had never seen him before? What about his regular doctor, although he had never mentioned his alcoholism/depression to his regular doctor?

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    Mr K and others who may consider taking time to help this OP, please see her posts on FA. She has admitted (loudly and proudly) that her husband has been screwing his employer for years now and that she thinks he ought to be able to continue to do so based solely on the fact that he got away with it before, he should therefore continue to get away with it.

    Just saying this particular OP is a bit of a time-waster for those who actually want to help someone.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    I think your husband has one hell of a nerve complaining about someone else's ethics. Since he doesn't appear to have any of his own.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    Quote Quoting eerelations
    View Post
    Mr K and others who may consider taking time to help this OP, please see her posts on FA. She has admitted (loudly and proudly) that her husband has been screwing his employer for years now and that she thinks he ought to be able to continue to do so based solely on the fact that he got away with it before, he should therefore continue to get away with it.

    Just saying this particular OP is a bit of a time-waster for those who actually want to help someone.
    Thanks for helping! I appreciate it

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    Quote Quoting Mapper
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    He DID indeed tell his manager that he may go into rehab as early as that afternoon or it may not be until the following week.
    That's all well and good -- but that doesn't mean that he was disabled from work during the time prior to his entry into rehab, and he chose not to tell his employer that he was sitting at home during the week after his approved FMLA leave ended and when he entered rehab.
    Quote Quoting Mapper
    He told his boss he had a highly distressed mind and would not be able to perform his job correctly.
    As your husband has been told by his employer and by his union rep, that's not sufficient.
    Quote Quoting Mapper
    His boss then told him to call the hotline and have them do an evaluation on him and they would put him on medical leave. He said he already did that and that they would not put him on leave until he was admitted to rehab.
    Was that yet another lie? Because if he went through a process to have his employer disable him from working based on his mental state, and they in fact did so, none of this would be an issue.
    Quote Quoting Mapper
    Approximately 45 minutes later, his boss called back and stated "You're good to go" and wished him good luck with treatment.
    If this was predicated upon your husband's lying to his supervisor, it doesn't help him.
    Quote Quoting Mapper
    The problem isn't the time after he got out of rehab, it's that week before he went into treatment.
    Right -- he is disabled during the time he was in rehab (and his employer has apparently not figured out that he left before the program ended), but he was not disabled from working after his three week leave for his (fake) back injury ended, but before he went into rehab.
    Quote Quoting Mapper
    But you think if he goes ahead and asks the doctor who did his initial assessment on March 27 for a note saying he wasn't fit that week prior before he went in, that that would be ethical?
    You have told us that your husband is seeing a doctor for his back condition. You have told us that your husband did a phone intake with an employer-approved specialist before he even told his supervisor that he was going to go to rehab. If his doctor was unable to detect any sign of mental stress, that could be an issue for him. If he lied about the phone intake, that would appear to be a big part of his present problem. If the best he can do is ask the doctor he saw at intake on March 27 to opine as to what his mental state may have been during the prior week, then that's the best he can do -- he can see what opinion the doctor can share and hope it satisfies his employer.
    Quote Quoting Mapper
    What about his regular doctor, although he had never mentioned his alcoholism/depression to his regular doctor?
    If he has a long history of treatment for various disorders, including those that he repeatedly uses to get FMLA leave from work, but has not once mentioned a problem with alcohol, mental stress or mental function, then it starts to look like he's once again malingering.

    You also make it sound like the insurance company found that inpatient treatment was not necessary, and that the treatment facility concurred with that determination when discharging him after 14 days.
    Quote Quoting eerelations
    View Post
    Mr K and others who may consider taking time to help this OP, please see her posts on FA. She has admitted (loudly and proudly) that her husband has been screwing his employer for years now....
    I don't actually have to look at another site to see that (a) she doesn't see a problem with her husband's lying to his employer to get protected time off of work, (b) she doesn't hold her husband accountable for his actions, and (c) her husband's decision to take five weeks off of work without pay was just fine, but somehow it's the employer's fault that she can't afford a cat sitter for her planned vacation.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Employee Disciplined for Missing Work After Confusion Over Request for Medical Le

    If you are asking whether or not there is some law he can invoke that will prohibit the employer from writing him up for misusing FMLA and thus save his job, the answer is no, there is no such law.

    In fact, he could legally be fired for the misuse of FMLA regardless.

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