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  1. #1
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    Mar 2015
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    Default Account Holder Flagged by Bank Due to Forgery

    My question involves personal finance in the State of: Texas
    Ok, this is what is going on! My son has been married for 3 1/2 years. Around xmas time his wife's grandmother passed. They traveled from MT where is in in the Air Force for her funeral in Texas. While my soon to be ex-daughter-in-law opened a wells fargo acct in his name. We have spoken to wells fargo and they have the paperwork that shows she opened at a branch and that his signature was not obtained. Meanwhile, his wife stole checks from her dead grandmother...and deposited them into the account. Pay to the order of ..was left blank...no endorsement signature on the back of check. The total amount was $5000 in 2 checks each $2500. They were returned as acct closed to wells fargo. Here's where it concerns me...The grandmother's checks were from the "Family" bank. They own the bank...the president is the grandmother's son. They knew they were forgeries...but did not report them as so to either wells fargo or the local police. Now my son has been flagged for fraud in the banking system. Wells Fargo has been very nice and their legal is looking into the acct was opened without his signature, but they had no idea the returned checks were actually forgeries. I feel like the Family bank swept the forgeries under the rug by returning the checks as acct closed ....when they knew that fraud and forgery was committed by part of the family. Now my son is paying the price. Wells Fargo said it will probably take 6 months to clear his name...he's in the Air Force...with direct deposit as the only option for pay, and he's now flagged in the banking system? How much responsibility does the family bank have for not reporting one of it's own?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Forgery

    how is your son flagged for fraud if the checks were returned account closed and Wells Fargo did not know they were forgeries. Unless the payee pursued the bad check, it ends there.



    Meanwhile, his wife stole checks from her dead grandmother...and deposited them into the account. Pay to the order of ..was left blank
    it seems like Wells Fargo was negligent here in accepting check with no payee listed. Why would they do that?

    how can the checks be forgeries when they were not negotiable as written?

    and again, why did Wells Fargo accept them if they were not endorsed? Again, it seems Wells Fargo was negligent here.

  3. #3
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    Mar 2015
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    5

    Default Re: Forgery

    the acct ended with -1400 balance and was turned over to loss prevention but the deposits were made by mobile phone ...hers. The banker at wells fargo just said the acct had been flagged in the banking database

  4. #4
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Forgery

    kathiie39;874260]the acct ended with -1400 balance and was turned over to loss prevention
    ok

    but the deposits were made by mobile phone
    ..ya mean where you take a pic of the check? Again, wells fargo is negligent if they presented a check with no payee to be cleared by the issuing bank.


    The banker at wells fargo just said the acct had been flagged in the banking database
    since nobody is claiming there was any fraud, it makes no sense WF would put your son on a list regarding fraud.

  5. #5
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    Mar 2015
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    5

    Default Re: Forgery

    me either! I am going to make him an appt with an attorney.

  6. #6
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Forgery

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    it seems like Wells Fargo was negligent here in accepting check with no payee listed. Why would they do that?
    Apparently the computerized check processing algorithm didn't catch it and, as the checks didn't go through because they were drawn from a closed account, there was no need to further review the deposit.
    Quote Quoting jk
    how can the checks be forgeries when they were not negotiable as written?
    Statutes for forgery of checks, or the attempt to deposit fraudulent checks, don't necessarily require that the person who forges the payor's signature or submits a check with false information to have dotted all of the i's and crossed all of the t's.
    Quote Quoting Texas Penal Code, Sec. 32.21. Forgery.
    (a) For purposes of this section:

    (1) "Forge" means:

    (A) to alter, make, complete, execute, or authenticate any writing so that it purports:

    (i) to be the act of another who did not authorize that act;

    (ii) to have been executed at a time or place or in a numbered sequence other than was in fact the case; or

    (iii) to be a copy of an original when no such original existed;

    (B) to issue, transfer, register the transfer of, pass, publish, or otherwise utter a writing that is forged within the meaning of Paragraph (A); or

    (C) to possess a writing that is forged within the meaning of Paragraph (A) with intent to utter it in a manner specified in Paragraph (B).

    * * *
    Thus, under Texas law, the incompleteness of the check is no defense, nor is the bank's mistake a defense. But this is somewhat academic, as no charges were pursued.
    Quote Quoting kathiie39
    View Post
    the acct ended with -1400 balance and was turned over to loss prevention but the deposits were made by mobile phone ...hers. The banker at wells fargo just said the acct had been flagged in the banking database
    That would explain why he was flagged -- his wife stole $1,400 from an account with his name on it, and neither he nor she has returned that money to the bank.
    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    since nobody is claiming there was any fraud, it makes no sense WF would put your son on a list regarding fraud.
    If the bank ended up with a negative balance because somebody withdrew money before the checks came back as being drawn on a closed account, then that would be fraud. It wouldn't be predicated on the act of forgery, but when you take money from somebody else based on your submission of checks that you know aren't any good that definitely is fraud.

  7. #7
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: Forgery

    A it isn't the checks that were actually an issue but somebody drew money from husbands (by name) account while there was not adequate funds in the account. In itself it would still not be fraud. It takes more than simply writing a bad check to be fraud. It has to be with intent.

    This is really isnt making much sense if it can be proven the husband had no actions on the account.

  8. #8
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    Sep 2005
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    Default Re: Forgery

    If you open an account, deposit checks you know are forged, withdraw money before the checks are dishonored, then walk away leaving the account with a negative balance, that's fraud. There's no question of intent here -- we've been told that the wife stole checks, forged the payor's signature, deposited them into an account she opened in her husband's name without his knowledge, and pocketed the money. Those are all intentional acts on her part. Also, even if the bank accepts that the husband didn't participate in the opening of the account, that of itself does not mean that he had no knowledge of the account's being opened or that had nothing to do with any subsequent activity on the account.

    The fundamental issue is not whether fraud occurred, but the extent of the husband's involvement in leaving the account with a negative balance, which is something that for now he will need to continue to try to work out with the bank's fraud department. It might very much simplify things if he could convince his wife to give the bank the money she misappropriated through her acts of fraud.

    Apparently there is a divorce in progress or soon to be filed. If the wife won't voluntarily pay that debt, the husband can ask that she be ordered to pay it (or reimburse him / get credit for it during the division of the marital estate) as part of the divorce action.

  9. #9
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    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Forgery

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    If you open an account, deposit checks you know are forged, withdraw money before the checks are dishonored, then walk away leaving the account with a negative balance, that's fraud.

    There's no question of intent here -- we've been told that the wife stole checks,
    I'm speaking of the husbands labeling, not the wife. Obviously the wife is the perpetrator.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Mar 2015
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    5

    Default Re: Forgery

    There's more to the story we found out...the wife had an acct. at the family owned bank...she's a member of the family...Their joint acct there showed a 25K balance...she told him it was inheritance from the deceased grandmother my son tried to call the bank the next day to confirm and was told that the acct had been closed for fraud. But said they could not give him the details because he wasn't the primary on the acct....it was a joint checking acct??? That's when she opened the acct at WF..with only his name....the application was unsigned...my son was stupid she gave him the acct # for the new acct to transfer his military direct deposit...he didn't get paid for about a month...WF took the 1400 and sent him a cashiers check for 1900 the balance left from his military pay...he had no knowledge of that...WF said it had been cashed. The wife said..she knows nothing. after confronting her about the 25K not being an inheritance she said it was a tellers mistake...and it was someone else's check that accidently got put in their acct.....my son was stupid...but I am left wondering what the family did to protect her...they knew the check was written after she died....she was the matriarch of the family..the bank presidents mother...had accts there for 60 years in a small town of about 1500....there's even a bronze bench with a sculpture of her and her husband sitting there overlooking main street as you enter the bank!

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