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  1. #1

    Question Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: PA

    We are the court appointed guardians and have had "permanent legal and physical custody" of our 6 year old grandchild for the last 4 1/2 years. Parents lost custody at 15 months of age due to drug abuse, legal issues, unfit living environment and unwillingness to follow CNY recommendations. All of these issues continue with both the mother and father. Parents do not have any visitation per the court order. We allow both parents minimal supervised contact at this time. My husband and I have been planning on retiring and moving to a smaller home closer to our immediate familys, this may happen within the next two years, we are in the process of actively looking now, and will purchase when we find the right place. If we were to move we would still allow supervised visits, however they would need to occur differently due to the long distance.

    Can the parents prevent us from moving? Also, another grandmother also threatens suing for custody occasionally, the case was thrown out the last time when she filed for sole custody, but I assume she will be filing again. She is mentally unstable and we have documented police reports to back up the instability and alcohol abuse. Even with that information, we were told she may likely get some sort of official scheduled visitation (even minimal). We could fight it, but that would be a huge legal battle that we really cant afford. If she was to get ANY official visitation (aka-partial physical custody in PA), could this automatically prevent us from moving?

    Thank you in advance for any responses.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    Are you talking about a relocation within the same county? Within the same state? What distance?

    With a guardianship, moving to another county may trigger a change of venue, but moving to another state creates jurisdictional issues.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    This would be a long distance move. We would agree to pay for both parents to come for extended visits several times per year. We have several areas we are looking at in the Southern US, this is recommended by my physicans as being beneficial for my health and as I said to move closer to our immediate family (they have all relocated to FL and SC over the last 10 years). We would still likely keep a residence in PA for several years, but our primary/physical address would be FL, SC, or GA.

    I dont want to buy a house next month, start fixing and spending time there and in a year have someone tell us we arent allowed to complete our move.

    Mr.Knowitall & Dogmatique, please check Inbox for info

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    Why haven't you just petitioned to adopt the child?

  5. #5

    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    Quote Quoting CourtClerk
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    Why haven't you just petitioned to adopt the child?
    The father has agreed to TPR, and us adopting, however the mother goes back and forth in regards to it. Our attorney had said that since she doesnt agree, we would need to file for involuntary TPR. Since she has had continued monthly contact for the last 4 1/2 years and has been in his life (even minimally), the attorney stated in general it is unlikely we would win an involuntary TPR. The mother continues to have the same issues (lifestyle, drugs, mental health) but has stayed under the radar with her legal issues, if she would have significant new charges it would make things better for our chances but it hasnt happened yet.

    According to the attorney, it would first go to mediation, then to the judge if the Mom didnt agree, then we would need to pay for very costly evaluations to decide whats best. Of course we would have a better chance if we went that route, but we dont really have the funds to do that. I am not sure if we would need to pay for an attorney for the child or not. But again, her having continued contact over the last few years will make it that contact shouldnt be "severed" by a TPR. I wish we would have thought about it more when he was placed here, stood up for ourselves and requested the TPR be completed by CPS when the placement was finalized.

    The other paternal grandmother has money and can repeatedly file, time and time again as well . If she files for "partial custody/visitation" while we are filing for voluntary or involuntary TPR against the parents what happens?

    Like I said, the father admits it is in the childs best interest to stay where he is, he will sign the TPR as long as we promise to never forbid him contact. That is not our goal by no means, but we would like some protection on our end of course.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    New Jersey has a statute that governs transfer of a guardianship to a different state:
    Quote Quoting NJSA Sec. 3B:12B-17: Transfer of guardianship or conservatorship to another state.
    a. A guardian or conservator appointed, or a conservatee, in this State may petition the court to transfer the guardianship or conservatorship to another state.

    b. Notice of a petition for transfer shall be given to the persons that would be entitled to notice of a petition in this State for the appointment of a guardian or conservator.

    c. On the court's own motion or upon request of the guardian or conservator or conservatee, or other person required to be notified of the petition, the court shall hold a hearing on a petition to transfer.

    d. The court shall issue an order provisionally granting a petition to transfer a guardianship and direct the guardian to petition for guardianship in the other state if the court is satisfied that the guardianship will be accepted by the court of the other state and the court finds that:

    (1) in the case of a guardianship of the person, the incapacitated person is physically present in or is reasonably expected to move permanently to the other state, or in the case of a guardianship of estate, the incapacitated person is physically present in or is reasonably expected to move permanently to, or has a significant connection to, the other state; and

    (2) an objection to the transfer has not been made or, that the transfer would not be contrary to the interests of the incapacitated person; and

    (3) in the case of a guardianship of the person, plans for care and services for the incapacitated person in the other state are reasonable and sufficient, or in the case of a guardianship of the estate, adequate arrangements are made for management of the incapacitated person's property.

    e. The court shall issue a provisional order granting a transfer of a conservatorship and shall direct the conservator to petition for conservatorship in the other state if the court is satisfied that the conservatorship will be accepted by the court of the other state and the court finds that:

    (1) the protected person is physically present in or is reasonably expected to move permanently to the other state, or the protected person has a significant connection to the other state considering the factors in section 10 of P.L.2012, c.36 (C.3B:12B-10);

    (2) an objection to the transfer has not been made or, that the transfer would not be contrary to the interests of the incapacitated person; and

    (3) adequate arrangements will be made for management of the protected person's property.

    f. The court shall issue a final order confirming the transfer and terminating the guardianship or conservatorship upon receipt of:

    (1) a provisional order accepting the guardianship or conservatorship from the court to which the guardianship or conservatorship is to be transferred under provisions similar to section 18 of P.L.2012, c.36 (C.3B:12B-18); and

    (2) the documents required to terminate a guardianship or conservatorship in this State.
    In terms of the parents, the big questions would be whether the court sees there as being a potential for reunification, and whether the court deems adequate the plan to continue with visitation and, if applicable, with any reunification plan.

    The other grandparent's failed prior effort to modify custody does not rule out the possibility that, if looking at a motion to substitute guardians where the present guardians aren't relocating to another state, the court might not heavily weigh the benefits of maintaining jurisdiction over the child versus ceding it to another state.

    You are represented, so you should be discussing your relocation plan with your lawyer.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    In terms of the parents, the big questions would be whether the court sees there as being a potential for reunification, and whether the court deems adequate the plan to continue with visitation and, if applicable, with any reunification
    How long do parents typically have to "get their lives straight" before its just to late to make an attempt for any sort of major custody claim? 2 years, 5 years, 10 years? In our specific case if the child didnt go to a family member they would have been put up for adoption after the first 18 months of non-compliance with CPS. According to the CPS documents the goal changed from reunification to permanent placement when they vacated and formulated the "permanancy plan". So we were given full permanent physical/legal custody instead of the temporary custody thru CPS.

    Since the court ordered no visitation, and they have not sought any visitation over the last 5 years, would that have any bearing?

    Is it really that parents can choose to not take responsibility for 5-10 years then one day say "OK I am ready now"? If they werent ready and didnt want to have the responsibility of parenting to begin with they should have kept their legs together. Ok, yes, it is very hard to look at everything objectively when we are the ones that deal with the medical, financial and emotional aspects of the childs needs due to their choices.

    Is it better for us to have fully purchased a retirement home if it comes to standing in front of a judge in a year or two, or to explain that is our plan and we are looking?

    If we decide to buy a home and get stuck, it just means that we will spend summers there and not be able to fully relocate till the child turns 18, that is not ideal but it is a possibility. Or I move and my husband visits a week here and there, it would be a lot of driving back and forth. Again, not ideal but we will do what we need to do to protect the child, but not neglect our future and my health needs.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Can Non-Custodial Parents or Grandparents Stop a Guardian's Move

    As long as they have parental rights, parents have until their children turn 18 to try to get their lives together and regain custody of their children. Yes, their inability to get their lives together and their lack of contact will be factors that a court considers.

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