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  1. #31
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    Jul 2014
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    441

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    I am more than a bit surprised that ANY retailer would permit a "strip" search of any sort. It's a recipe for disaster, and a potential civil nightmare for the business.

    The detention and a search of pockets and belongings likely would present no unusual liability, but, to make someone take off their clothes - even if agreeing to do so - is opening the door to all manner of allegations that I would think a retailer would want to avoid.
    I'm somewhat surprised too, but as you know, this wasn't an actual "strip search."

    I'm very curious as to what EXACTLY was said. It's not that I think that Pandora is lying; not at all. But I think that for the situation she was in at the time, with her emotions and nerves likely frayed, she might have interpreted something slightly differently than they said it or meant it, or misheard, or about 100 other variations on that theme.

    It is standard operating procedure to take them to a fitting room with a female manager; the fitting room is totally clean going in. They go in, take off what they are wearing underneath, then exit. The fitting room is checked again to make sure they didn't ditch any other merchandise, drug abuse instruments, weapons, etc. Then what they give back is compared to what LP knows or suspects they stole.

    It's not standard operating procedure to say "open the door to show yourself," but again, I'm wondering if they didn't actually tell Pandora something like "You better make sure we know you don't still have anything on," which she interpreted as "open the door and show yourself to the manager." Also, even if they DID tell her to do this, I'm not going to venture into saying whether or not they were wrong to do so; I don't know MI law, what policies they might have gotten cleared through their district LPM, etc.

    I will say that you would be shocked at how many girls I've had to literally stop from pulling down their pants, lifting their shirts, etc. in the LP office. It's almost weird how people are willing to just start undressing to prove that they don't have anything else on them. I'm not sure why they do it but I'm guessing it's just nerves along with a desire to be seen as finally coming clean.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    Michigan
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    6,808

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    I was told by the LP guys (and I even remember their first names)....that there would be a "strip search".

    When I was escorted to the fitting room, they had my purse, they had my jacket. I was cold but was not allowed to even have my jacket in my own possession.

    The female manager escorted me to the fitting room. I was told to take my clothes off, place them on the floor, toss the lifted garment over the door when I came upon it. I had on jeans and a short sleeve black shirt.

    After that, I was told to open the door, while leaving my clothing on the floor (I tend to hate bras, so I was down to panties and socks). I had to put my arms up, turn around, basically do a 360. She picked up my shirt, went through the pockets of my jeans, and even put her hand in both shoes (tennis shoes). Then allowed me to close the door and get dressed again.

    They also, when my purse was searched prior to this....wanted to add a lipstick to the charge. I remember the look on the LP dude's face...."ha, got her on this too". But I just said "Open it....you'll see it's been well used". Agreed with me on that.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,451

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    Quote Quoting DeputyDog
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    I'm somewhat surprised too, but as you know, this wasn't an actual "strip search."
    No ... but, sufficiently so that I used it in quotes, and, that it would almost certainly be good cause for a lawsuit. At least, so I would think. Absent booking or exigency, I'd need a search warrant to do even that much.

    I'm very curious as to what EXACTLY was said. It's not that I think that Pandora is lying; not at all. But I think that for the situation she was in at the time, with her emotions and nerves likely frayed, she might have interpreted something slightly differently than they said it or meant it, or misheard, or about 100 other variations on that theme.
    Very likely.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

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    Love mercy,
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  4. #34
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
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    6,808

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    I do think it could have been handled better.

    Was I bothered? Hell yes.

    When I was 21-22 and had an 11 pm curfew...went out with friends one night. Went to my car alone when I left. Two guys pinned me against another car, one grabbing for my necklace, the other fondling my breasts, and I am glad other people had come outside so they got scared off.

    So yes, I was not very cooperative with these LP's who did not even identify themselves at first. Yes, I know I did something wrong, but...atleast they could have said they were store LP. I'm trying to get into my car, one blocks the door with the other one behind me. Walk the other way, block that door. (This was written up in the police report as "suspect tried to run around her car".) "Ok, she's not cooperating, call the cops".

    So when they called the cops, yes, I'm scared. I was escorted back inside by both these guys. One on each side, hands around my elbows. My car keys were already taken from me, one dude is carrying my purse also.

    I was told there would be a strip search. And that is the words they used. "STRIP SEARCH".

    They took me into the LP room, ordered me to take off my jacket, emptied my purse the one guy already had. Would not give me my jacket when I stated I was cold. And yes, also, I was patted down. Spread legs, feel up and down (but not between), feel along my sides. Arms spread, feel along my arms (ok, what the...this is a short sleeved shirt!).

    Phone? Nope. Can I use the bathroom? Nope (when I get nervous, I have to pee!).

    Female manager comes in. I get escorted to fitting room. Everything I already mentioned. Leave clothes on the floor, open the door in panties and socks.

    I did get to pee eventually...and yes, was escorted to the bathroom.

    Did I also mention I had worked at that store about a year prior? So the female manager recognized me and did state "she used to work here". I don't know if that has anything to do with it.

    I can understand the OP. But being here for almost 6 years...I can also see where if she cooperated....the issue would have been cleared up right from the go.

    and I will say this...the cop treated me with a lot more dignity than the LP guys. I was released at the scene, he walked to my car and I drove home....

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Jul 2014
    Posts
    441

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    Quote Quoting PandorasBox
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    I do think it could have been handled better.
    Did I also mention I had worked at that store about a year prior? So the female manager recognized me and did state "she used to work here". I don't know if that has anything to do with it.
    That is not an insignificant detail.

    Since you are a long term poster here, and I've seen you take responsibility for what you did many times, and you clearly are giving your time here to educate others about not making the same choices you made, I'll dispense with asking how much you stole from them while employed there, and then getting into a pi$$ing match with you about whether you're telling the truth or not.

    Suffice it to say that former employees who are caught stealing get "special treatment." If what you say is true, that they used the words "strip search," and all the rest of it, I'm indeed surprised and have some questions that I'd love to know the answers to.

    As for them not identifying - well you admit in your post that you knew you had shoplifted, so in your heart, I don't think you really believed you were being attacked. I think you had a pretty good idea they were either LP or cops. I think that at the time you might have been almost hoping you were wrong, or hoping that you could turn their failure to identify to your advantage - if in fact they failed to identify themselves and you didn't just not hear them as your adrenaline surged.

    True story: a girl who was resisting me was attempting to make a phone call on her cell phone, even while fighting and being handcuffed. She had a getaway car with two adult males in it, and I knew she was trying to call them. I yelled at her twice to drop the phone. She did not listen. For my safety, the phone was forcefully removed from her hand, and in doing so, was broken. Later, in the LP office, she would swear up and down that she never heard me say to drop the phone. I don't think she was lying; I think she didn't hear me because of her adrenaline rush from running and fighting with me.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
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    6,808

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    I never purposefully stole before or after.

    By purposefully: You're a stock clerk. How easy is it to forget you have a box cutter in your pocket?

    I've worked retail for many years.

    When I worked at Kohl's....1st store...I was hired. Then a SalesRep for a beer/wine distributor asked if I was still looking for work, so I accepted his offer (this guy has known me since I was a 19 year old at a major retailer, if that says anything). And kept Kohl's as a second job (0-12 hours/wk)

    1st store....I did Early Morning Replenishment. Aka....helping to unload the truck, open boxes, sort onto carts/racks. And cross trained for Cashier. I quit both jobs to relocate, but my grandmother started clinging to walls and furniture to walk, stupid me, I stayed to take care of her. I was needed, but not wanted. She gradually got more abusive and I wanted out...but at this point, I'm her caregiver...leave on my own free will, I get charged with Elder Abandonment. If she goes ahead with taht constant threat to throw me out if I get in any trouble or make her mad...I'm free to go....(and I also have belongings in a storage unit at this point because of her threats to call Purple Heart/Salvation Army and my b/f's house....to pick up my "junk, shit, and crap" as she called it....). So when I did it...what kind of trouble can I get in so she kicks me out? Pot smoking...I don't know anyone who uses....

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Jun 2014
    Posts
    185

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    Quote Quoting PandorasBox
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    They said I had to do it. Did it bother me? Yes. What could I do about it? I didn't know know this was not standard protocol.
    For future reference, if store LP or a law-enforcement officer does something that you think is "weird" or "dangerous" or "unusual", I would suggest that you run from the situation. If you're in a store and the LPs have covered the exits, then go to an area that is well-populated with customers. Hopefully, the LPs won't be dumb enough to do anything "weird" in front of customers.

  8. #38
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    Mar 2009
    Location
    Michigan
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    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    Run?

    Ok...see....my first response to OP was based on personal experience.

    If she was innocent...strip down in front of a same sex manager...be on her merry way.

    Run...again...now she can ditch the goods. Or....where I was...where to run to? Swamp? Highway? 5 lane road? Now you add a probable "fleeing and eluding". Don't think 2 men are gonna NOT chase a petite woman?

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    WV
    Posts
    230

    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    LP can detain you for a reasonable amount of time. This can allow for LE to respond and/or for the LP and store employees to collect the information they need. In the case of the OP those two loose tags can be what nails her. If the store checks the changing rooms after each use and they can say with certainty those tags were not in there prior to OP going in then that is a big mark against the OP.

    LP can demand their property back and they are afforded the "reasonable amount of time" while detaining a person to compile a list of what was taken. If what they are handed is not all of what is on the list they compiled they can inform the LEO about that. Having someone strip down to their essentials for a visual check is beyond the scope of their authority in my mind.

  10. #40
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    Mar 2009
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    Michigan
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    Default Re: Refusal to Cooperate With Loss Prevention After a Shoplifting Accusation

    Quote Quoting Mephis
    View Post
    Having someone strip down to their essentials for a visual check is beyond the scope of their authority in my mind.
    If you've never committed a crime....how do you know what is within their right and what is not? What is being further uncooperative and making it worse? (If something like a body cavity search was stated....that is where I would have said "the cop arrives first and he hauls be down to the station".)

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