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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
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    3

    Default Charging Back Online Gambling on a Credit Card

    My question involves collection proceedings in the State of: Illinois

    Hey there! I consider myself a casual poker player and recently began playing poker on a poker site that claims to be legal in the US. Basically I was tricked into believing that what I was doing was legal. I've been playing there for the past month or so and since then have made a few deposits coming out to a total of ~$700. Anyways, recently I had technical difficulties on the site costing me over $100 and called their customer support. After being on the phone with them for over an hour on issues that were definitely their fault, they refused to refund even the $20 that I was asking of them.

    Out of frustration, I did lots of research on the site and realized that what I was doing was illegal, and what they are doing is VERY illegal. Basically, in order to get around US cards accepting charges, they have 3rd party companies receive the charges which basically launder the money to the gambling sites. At this point I've found hundreds of threads discussing similar situations and have come to the consensus that I can pretty safely charge back my money and that I will basically lose all funds I still have left on the account, but that they won't be able to come after me for fraud because they are international and that the debt is illegal in the United States.

    A little note that about $200 of the charges were on my credit card, the rest were on a debit card.

    My biggest concerns are if the offshore companies can somehow affect my credit score (I'm only 19, my credit score will be very important for me the next 7 years) and will my credit card or debit card companies delete my accounts?

    If I do charge back what should be the reason for me charging back? Should I say that the goods/services were different than I had thought because their program was costing me $$? Can I say that I never received the charges because the charges on my bill were coming from companies that I was never dealing with? (These laundering companies show up as flower shops, shoe shops, technology stores, etc and I never did any business with those companies)

    Thanks in advance for the advice! Please let me know if you need any other information

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    not in a prison
    Posts
    732

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    you don't owe the casino, you owe the card co and they hold a legal debt against you, being 19 I suspect you didn't know your odds of wining money from an online gambling site,,, its slim to none. that goes for any casino you would walk into here in the states as well,, its all set up to take your money, the house always wins.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    Thanks for the responses

    I understand the risks of gambling and know the slim chances of winning money at the casino's expense. My issue here is that I lost money due to their software malfunctioning. I already attempted settling with them but after spending over an hour on the phone, the response I received was that no matter who's fault the issue was they could not reimburse me because that would require them to reimburse everybody. The thing is, so long as it's the complete fault of the casino, the player shouldn't have to worry about losing money from their client crashing. Had they been willing to work with me and had even reimbursed part of the money lost I would not be hear right now.

    After reading many horror stories where they ran around paying out large sums of money and people with similar situations as my own, I'm here because I want to make sure I'm doing this right.

    edit: Grammar

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
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    not in a prison
    Posts
    732

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    its an offshore gambling site, its not subject to any type of odds/gaming laws like in a normal casino, I would even doubt that you played against real people, but rather a computer, they also put out good feedback to trick people into thinking they have a chance to win a large sum, its propaganda, the good reviews are staged, its a big con game, call you card co up and explain what happened see if they will cover it,

    you can always dispute any charge if you feel you didn't get what you paid for with your card co,, they will investigate and decide if they will refund your money. this takes 30 to 60 days. but I think in the contracts they make you sign it has a gambling clause in it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2015
    Posts
    3

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    Alright thanks. They have a bunch of different options for filing a dispute and I was wondering what option I should take. I actually have to file the dispute against the company which I was charged from, which are just small companies being used to launder the casino's money. Should I just say I never received the good/service? Because I have received nothing from the flower shops/shoe companies and they probably won't even respond because they'll have no proof of purchase.

    I just want to make sure I am not doing CC fraud as that would be a much bigger deal than the situation that I'm currently in.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2014
    Location
    not in a prison
    Posts
    732

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    call the 800number on the back of the card and tell the them your story,, you went on an online gaming site, their software screwed up, they refused to refund you,, and you want to dispute the charges. it does not matter that the name of the co that took your money sells flowers as well. they are the ones that took the charge for some online poker game.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    Contrary to what Tony has suggested, offshore casinos that cater to U.S. residents are subject to U.S. laws, and criminal prosecutions have been successfully pursued against the operators of some offshore casinos that operate unlawfully within the U.S.

    The Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act of 2006 (UIGEA) "prohibits gambling businesses from knowingly accepting payments in connection with the participation of another person in a bet or wager that involves the use of the Internet and that is unlawful under any federal or state law." As a consequence, were the offshore casino to try to directly charge your credit card for the money you placed on the card, the credit card company would decline the charge.

    Offshore gambling sites now routinely use fake charges such as the ones you describe to disguise the true nature of the charge, to bypass U.S. law and credit card company policies. You made a charge with an offshore casino. It shows up on your credit card as some other company. You dispute the charge based on its not being a company with which you've ever made a purchase. The credit card company investigates the claim, quite possibly crediting the money back to your account -- even if you made the purchase it is not contractually proper to launder the purchase through a different company not actually associated with the transaction. If the credit card company figures out what happened, it may choose to close your account.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    19,901

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    Your card issuer is NOT going to charge back off shore gambling charges no matter how you frame the fault in the system. Your card agreement terms almost certainly bars them any responsibility for gambling debts of any sort.

    As Mr. K points out, it would be illegal for them to directly fund the gambling by US law to begin with (and they will not). Your money didn't go directly to the casino, it went to some offshore payment processor who "laundered" the money to the casino. Since that transfer was legitimately placed (even if the reasons were ultimately legitimate), the issuer is not inclined to refund your money...that transaction was not an issue.

    I should point out to you that online gambling is INCREDIBLY risky. I admit I did a little (small potatoes, only $50 of my own money I parlayed up into a higher sum but still not an issue if I had lost it). First is that these escape much regulation. Many of these casinos have failed as being essentially Ponzi schemes. The proprietors took the deposited funds (which were still "in play") and payouts came from other "in play" funds. In some cases use of loopholes in the software were also used to rig the game in favor of house players at the expense of the real players. As Mr. K also alludes, these sites while perhaps outside of some US enforcement have also gone "poof" overnight when the us DOJ took over the domain registrations.

    I was a regular on the Ultimate Bet site that was one of the big fraud sites, but they weren't the first nor the last.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Feb 2015
    Posts
    1

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    ok so has anyone actually done this and reported to the bank that it is actually a casino charge? all these posts are appreciated however it doesn't mean squat unless you have actual experience of the matter, please do not post unless so. as for me I have done this and what my question is, is can you report to the card issuing company, that you did do so at a casino and for some reason- refunds, payouts, glitches, they are not refunding or paying you what you think they should. can one claim all charges of all casinos as a dispute for the facts listed above? again your opinions are appreciated however real testimonies or real legal knowledge for real dispute fraud charges only please!

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    New Jersey
    Posts
    3,666

    Default Re: Charging Back Online Gambling on a Cc

    You said that the issue that you're talking about is over $20. If you ask the credit card company for a charge-back for that $20, that would be legal. But if you try and claim the $700 plus, that would be fraud. Live and learn. You're 19, you have your whole life to learn from your mistakes and recoup your lost money through hard work.

    And al thou a charge back won't effect your credit rating, it will be on file with your bank and credit card company and they can use that against you at a later date. If you charge back once, that isn't a problem, but if you need to do it in the future, you need to remember that there is a paper trail of your charge backs.

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