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  1. #1
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    Nov 2006
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    Default In pro per - how do I generate a court order?

    I'm in Ca. and my custody order case comes from Pa.

    Via subpoena and acting pro per I've attempted to obtain a sealed Ca. police report documenting my childs sexual abuse. The police denied the subpoena and they tell me I need a court order.

    Now finding the forms for my Subpoena and Petition for Custody Modification was easy as I found them posted online at the Pa. county website.

    How does one go about getting a court order in pro per as there are no prepared forms at the Pa. website? Thanks in advance for any info.

  2. #2
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    Jul 2006
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    984

    Default Re: In pro per how do I generate a court order?

    I read your previous posts re this matter and it is imperative that you obtain counsel. The time to get a Court order for the California Police report was in California while you had the child in California before the CA judge ordered you to return the child. A judge doesn't have to consider a police report, so even getting the Police report may still do you little good. If you applied for emergency custody using the appropriate sections of CA statutes and there was a documented history of "family violence within 5 years" should have made a difference, being pro per is very risky, too risky when the best interest of a child is at stake. The fact that the child denies the abuse for what ever reason and no physical evidence and 3 other unfounded investigations does not bode well and this strategy may have backfired on you. Finding competent counsel to represent you will be very costly and you will need a very specialized family law attorney to address these issues.

    IF THIS IS A CUSTODY BATTLE, PLEASE, PLEASE GET BOTH AN ATTORNEY AND COUNSELING.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: In pro per how do I generate a court order?

    thank you for your reply

  4. #4
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    Default Re: In pro per how do I generate a court order?

    You are welcome

  5. #5
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    Default Re: In pro per how do I generate a court order?

    Quote Quoting rmet4nzkx
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    The time to get a Court order for the California Police report was in California while you had the child in California before the CA judge ordered you to return the child. A judge doesn't have to consider a police report, so even getting the Police report may still do you little good. If you applied for emergency custody using the appropriate sections of CA statutes and there was a documented history of "family violence within 5 years" should have made a difference, being pro per is very risky, too risky when the best interest of a child is at stake. The fact that the child denies the abuse for what ever reason and no physical evidence and 3 other unfounded investigations does not bode well and this strategy may have backfired on you. Finding competent counsel to represent you will be very costly and you will need a very specialized family law attorney to address these issues.

    IF THIS IS A CUSTODY BATTLE, PLEASE, PLEASE GET BOTH AN ATTORNEY AND COUNSELING.
    Rmet4nzkx, I will be speaking to different counsel today so please don't take my questions the wrong way - As I value your response.

    As for my strategy backfiring on me - I haven't been so lucky as to even have built one. My child was taken from me after the Ca. Judge denied my Emergency Custody Petition. I don't think that there was even time to generate a successful Court Order to obtain the police report as it all unfolded in about 6 or 7 days time.

    You also reference "and there was a documented history of "family violence within 5 years" ". Let me clarify that the sex wasn't committed by the mother but by the mothers boyfriend son.

    At that point in time my only option, pro per or not, was to file my Petition for Custody Modification and to try and include the police report with my Declaration. Getting the filing made was difficult as the mother transferred the custody order to another county but never finalized it by paying the fee. I endedup requesting the transfer docs from the clerk and then filed them myself - This is the reason for the block of time thats past.

    The current status is Mediation. Forgive me, but I do not see what competent counsel to represent me could possibly do here as counsel isn't invited to Mediation. Following Mediation the case will be seen by a Judge and here I can only assume that competent counsel could and would only show that the facts speak for themselves - The mother failed for 2 years time to perform her parentally responsibilities.

    You mentioned that my child denies the incidents. True both Ca. & Pa. CPS were stonewalled but before my child left my care the child swore that they would tell the Judge. I can only assume that the AUTHORITY of a policeman or judge compels the child to speak of the incident. On a sour note I was totally unimpressed with CPS as what they looked for was a confession and that wasn't going to happen. CPS does not investigate. As for physical evidence, the boy who comitted the sex has admitted it, however he is a juvenile so it's not a crime - Pa law is different from Ca.

    Lastly you mention that the Judge doesn't have to consider a police report. So how do the mothers actions play into this - She's moved and has the child in therapy and when asked directly she will admit the issue - Her attorney included has knowledge as I've received a doc from him outlining his knowledge of the incidents. So if you could tell me how a Judge might internalize as I no clue. Thank you.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: In pro per - how do I generate a court order?

    If the police report about which you are so worried contained compelling evidence or admissions, it would have been forwarded to the DA office, that did not happen.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: In pro per - how do I generate a court order?

    Quote Quoting rmet4nzkx
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    If the police report about which you are so worried contained compelling evidence or admissions, it would have been forwarded to the DA office, that did not happen.
    It doesn't work that way. The report gets handed off to state pa police and then CYS is called in to determine if the DA is needed. CYS got no info from the child making it a total of 3 reports which only 1 of outlines the incidents. Therefore the DA is not engaged by the CYS and state police because of inconsistant reports.

    Now after speaking with numberous lawyers the message I get is clear - I will most likely not win. This is due to the fact that I will need to prove fault on the mothers part. The fact she knew of innappropriate touching for 2 yrs time and the children viewing online porno apparently isn't enough to prove fault. She would've had to have known about the sex and looked the other way - Wow, apparently neglectgence isn't present as long as she was ignorant to what was happening under her own roof. Additionally she has the child in therapy and she has moved down the street from the home the incidents took place.

    It's not a good day.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: In pro per - how do I generate a court order?

    Quote Quoting blackrhino
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    It doesn't work that way. The report gets handed off to state pa police and then CYS is called in to determine if the DA is needed. CYS got no info from the child making it a total of 3 reports which only 1 of outlines the incidents. Therefore the DA is not engaged by the CYS and state police because of inconsistant reports.

    Now after speaking with numberous lawyers the message I get is clear - I will most likely not win. This is due to the fact that I will need to prove fault on the mothers part. The fact she knew of innappropriate touching for 2 yrs time and the children viewing online porno apparently isn't enough to prove fault. She would've had to have known about the sex and looked the other way - Wow, apparently neglectgence isn't present as long as she was ignorant to what was happening under her own roof. Additionally she has the child in therapy and she has moved down the street from the home the incidents took place.

    It's not a good day.
    How the report gets to the DA may vary from county to county, but the end result is the same. Thus this report would not in and of its self compelled the judge to give you custody. Most likely, mom will be more vigilant in the future and you might ask for a modification on PA to limit contact between this other child.

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