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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
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    Washington state
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    21

    Default School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    Hi everyone,

    I was just at a school board meeting where they were discussing the superintendent's contract without using any details for the public. One person tried to ask a point of order to get the details before the vote, but the board refused to let him ask his question stating that the public was not allowed to do a point of order, that only the board can do a point of order.

    I was under the impression that the point of order was for anybody. Is that true? And if so, is there any penalty for a public agency lying to the public like that?

    Thank you.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    372

    Default Re: Point of Order Only for the Board, Not for the Public

    There are many different customs for running meetings. We've no idea what rules are used wherever you are.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    8,238

    Default Re: Point of Order Only for the Board, Not for the Public

    Typically procedural actions in a meeting like motions, points of order, objections, etc., are only done by members of the body conducting the meeting, i.e. the school board here. Members of the public, while they may observe the proceedings, cannot interject themselves into the meeting. Thus, the board member was likely correct, though it depends of course on the particular rules the board uses for its meetings.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    7,056

    Default Re: Point of Order Only for the Board, Not for the Public

    Each year, when the body (school board, council, planning board, senate, assembly, etc.) reorganizes they adopt the rules by which their meeting and sessions will be conducted under. These rules are almost always Robert's Rules of Order - Parliamentary Procedure.

    http://www.rulesonline.com/index.html

    Under these rules, only the members of the assembly can raise a point of order.

    Point of order,

    The problem with a lot of local government agencies is that they adopt the Rules but don't know or follow them.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    I appreciate the replies and am sorry, but I need a little clarification. There are board members, assembly members, and members of the public. What is member of the assembly exactly? Thank you very much.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Posts
    165

    Default Re: School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    Mooseheart,

    As noted above, review the Roberts Rules of Order. I'm not aware of a non-board member being permitted to inject themselves into a board discussion via point of order.

    Generally, if the board seeks testimony from the public, and the item is part of a public hearing then they will call for public comment as part of that item when the chairman or person conducting the meeting believes that is appropriate. Otherwise, you don't have a certain right to just inject yourself into that discussion.

    Review your State's meeting laws, as well as the adopted rules for the specific body to see if there are specific procedures they must comply with when deliberating over various issues.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
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    7,056

    Default Re: School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    Quote Quoting mooseheart
    View Post
    I appreciate the replies and am sorry, but I need a little clarification. There are board members, assembly members, and members of the public. What is member of the assembly exactly? Thank you very much.
    An assembly is a group of people who make and change laws for a government or organization. At a board of education meeting you have the assembly (BOE) and then you have the public.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2014
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    8,238

    Default Re: School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    Quote Quoting mooseheart
    View Post
    I appreciate the replies and am sorry, but I need a little clarification. There are board members, assembly members, and members of the public. What is member of the assembly exactly? Thank you very much.
    Very generally, the assembly referred to Robert’s rules is comprised of those persons who have the power to vote on matters for the organization. In this case, the assembly is the school board, and the members of the assembly are the members of the school board. Members of the public don’t vote on matters before the school board; only the school board members do. While it’s possible that your particular school board has rules that would allow the public to interject themselves into the meeting and raise procedural matters, that would be extremely unusual.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    Quote Quoting mooseheart
    View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I was just at a school board meeting where they were discussing the superintendent's contract without using any details for the public. One person tried to ask a point of order to get the details before the vote, but the board refused to let him ask his question stating that the public was not allowed to do a point of order, that only the board can do a point of order.

    I was under the impression that the point of order was for anybody. Is that true? And if so, is there any penalty for a public agency lying to the public like that?

    Thank you.
    Based on this thread, and your other thread regarding your local school board it seems to me like you have a fundamental problem with them, in general, that seems to have you grasping at straws a bit trying to find things that they are doing wrong.

    Perhaps you should address what your real problem with them is, and then perhaps you should address that issue in the next election, to perhaps get people elected to the board that you feel would better address your more fundamental concerns.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2014
    Location
    Washington state
    Posts
    21

    Default Re: School Board Would Not Permit Member of the Public to Raise a Point of Order

    Thank you all very much for the clarification. That's not the answer I wanted, but at least I know the truth now. The funny part is that the board has allowed us and other members of the public to bring up a point of order for years, so we thought that was proper - but they have now learned - as have we, that the point of order is only for the board members. That's how out of touch we all are in this community.

    All we want from our board is for them to be honest with us and to follow the laws. They seem to work as hard as they can to be deceitful and sneaky. For example, they hired this superintendent without letting the public make a single comment (or announcing that they were working on hiring a superintendent) - and now they signed his contract without giving a single number for his salary in their discussion. After which they all unanimously agreed on this phantom salary and signed the contract. Only after the contract was signed could we see the salary and contract information. Legally I suppose they "discussed it" - but they didn't give any information to the public, which seems to completely negate the intent of the law to "discuss the salary in public".

    It's not about stopping them at the next election - it's about stopping them now. They are in charge of our children, so there is no excuse for them to be secretive on any level. Secrets only mean someone is hiding something, so the question then becomes why does every board member and the superintendent work so hard at hiding information?

    I appreciate the help. Thank you very much.

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