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  1. #11
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Quote Quoting cbg
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    When you refer to the manhunt in the East, are you referring to the one in my city a year ago April? If so, your facts are incorrect.

    no. the one that just ended yesterday or the day prior.

    the search for Frein.

  2. #12
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Death, no matter how it arrives, is inherently difficult for those left behind.

    For the most part though, I agree with jk at least inasmuch as how we tend to prioritize and categorize whose life is more worthy than another; the death of the guy driving the school bus is no less tragic than the death of any other person who has basically lived to serve in one way or another.

    Tragedy is tragedy.


  3. #13
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Quote Quoting jk
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    I grow tired of the
    we need to bow our heads because he was a cop killed in the line of duty. He gave us his life.
    It is true though, is it not? That person chose to put their life on the line EVERY day they work in order to serve a public that often distrusts or outright hates them.

    Quote Quoting jk
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    Police do not have the highest risk of death in their occupation. Every one of us go to work every day. Some of us perform work more dangerous than others but the police are the only group that expects everybody to bow their heads not because a person died but what he did when he lived. Sorry folks but that is about as bullshit as one can get.
    The police do not expect that. I don't know where you get that idea. The public just does it in recognition of the sacrifice that person made.

    Quote Quoting jk
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    On top of that, what other occupation sends hundreds of attendants to funerals of members of their occupation simply because they were performing the same occupation, often at taxpayer expense?
    The officers at the funerals I have attended are often there on their day off. Is the public footing the bill for some gas, maybe.

    Quote Quoting jk
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    That alone shows an attitude of retribution rather than justice. That is why the cops are often seen in such a poor light. Retribution has taken the place of justice in many of their actions and attitudes.
    If it were about retribution, he would not have been taken alive.

    At the end of the day though, we are all entitled to our opinions.

  4. #14
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    free9man;845446]It is true though, is it not? That person chose to put their life on the line EVERY day they work in order to serve a public that often distrusts or outright hates them.
    but so do many other people and in some situation, more often than a policeman. As I said, my chosen career, depending on whose stats you look at, causes more deaths per worker than that of a policeman yet I expect nothing from the public because of the risk involved.



    The police do not expect that. I don't know where you get that idea. The public just does it in recognition of the sacrifice that person made.
    sorry but the fact Carl made this post proves my point




    The officers at the funerals I have attended are often there on their day off. Is the public footing the bill for some gas, maybe.
    and the police vehicles are provided my whom?

    and I noticed you said; often there on their days off

    and it costs more than gas to operate a vehicle. beyond the actual costs are the increased liability of having a police vehicle on the road where it may become involved in an incident that puts the municipality that owns the vehicle at risk financially. Police vehicles should be used for police activities, in the area they are iinvolved.



    If it were about retribution, he would not have been taken alive.
    well, let me tell you a tale of another time a cop was killed. The guy was chased, almost immediately, from the event. It was known among those in pursuit the intent was that the guy would not be taken alive if certain other officers arrived before others. The guy that was there first was among the group that would ensure the culprit would not be taken alive. The suspect was stopped by a cop cruiser blasting across the median of an interstate and t boning the culprits vehicle. The cop then proceeded to exit his car and head towards the culprits vehicle. Somehow another officers pleading of not killing the guy got through to the on site cop and the cuplrit was taken alive. Of course most all of this is through "coded" communications so it is not easily recognized as the statement.

    but retribution does not have to come in the form of killing the guy. Anything outside of the enforcement of justice is retribution as it brings the personal intent of those involved into play.






    At the end of the day though, we are all entitled to our opinions.
    of course we are. I expressed mine, you expressed yours.

    but beyond the opinion, I believe this is one reason the cops have such a hard time garnering sympathy and often become targets; the showing of; we, the cops, of the US are more important than the rest of society. We want people to honor our dead not merely as a human being but as a cop. It is very similar to the demands of a monarchy where honoring royalty is expected simply because they are royalty.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Why did this just remind me of Mumia Abu Jamal?

  6. #16
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Quote Quoting jk
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    but retribution does not have to come in the form of killing the guy. Anything outside of the enforcement of justice is retribution as it brings the personal intent of those involved into play.
    How is using the murdered officer's cuffs outside the enforcement of justice? It is poetic justice, if anything. Had they slapped them on, throttled them or dragged him by them...sure.

  7. #17
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Quote Quoting free9man
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    How is using the murdered officer's cuffs outside the enforcement of justice? It is poetic justice, if anything. Had they slapped them on, throttled them or dragged him by them...sure.
    poetic justice? The cops are into making a drama out of the arrest? The point is; handcuffs are handcuffs. Using the murdered cop's handcuffs is a show of being vindictive. How about they simply use handcuffs.


    and after seeing the guy, I will wait on the judgment of whether there was undue force used or not.

    but enough of this. I said my piece and I'm not going to belabor the point any longer in Carl's thread. If you wish to have a dialogue with me concerning this, start another thread. I intended simply to make my point about what I feel is an unjust homage to police killed in the line of duty compared to thousands of other people killed in the line of their work but simply honored by those around them rather than publicizing it across the country looking for sympathy for the fallen person.

  8. #18
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    A man or woman who kills a cop is not only a threat to law enforcement, but a threat to anyone and everyone. An assault upon the officer - a symbol of authority - is an affront to civil order, plain and simple.

    I NEVER STATED - NOT ONCE - that law enforcement is the most dangerous career choice out there! But, NO OTHER career regularly engages in high risk activity on a daily basis by being required to intercede in unpredictable, volatile, and even explosive situations. If it were easy, anyone could do it. It's not.

    When we lose an officer due to murder it is not simply an attack on the individual, it is an assault upon the social controls that allow our society to function. Without these controls - without law and order - we would have anarchy. Yes, the officer is merely one man. But, the daily vitriol spewing forth from our politicians and from the race-baiters and others who have a political agenda are helping to fuel what has become a nearly unprecedented high murder rate of officers this year - mostly within the past few months.

    Let us suppose we offer a shrug and a, "Gee, too bad ... a cop was gunned down ... he was probably a pig," attitude. We hire another bullet catcher and paper pusher and move on, might that be it? Who, then, will respond to your call of a prowler in the middle of the night? Who will respond to your conflict? Theft? Assault? If the citizenry refuses to be concerned with the symbolism that such an assault represents, who, then, will volunteer for a career that requires the individual officer to put his or her life on the line sometimes for little more than minimum wage? It is a calling because it still means something. The people that respond to this calling tend to do so because it is something they choose to do because they believe in the system, the job, and the community. It ain't the money (usually). The day that we refuse to acknowledge the tragedy and impact of the death of a public servant such as an officer or even a firefighter, that is the day that we shall find ourselves truly lost as a society.

    My state is seeking to reform salary and pensions to the point that many dedicated law enforcement officers are seeking to bail out before our pensions are ripped away from us. Reforms are on the horizon that will no longer make law enforcement a destination career for many, but a career of last resort. And that will truly be sad because we might then see the widespread results of poor policing, thuggery, and even criminal activity by those that we look to for safety.

    I don't ask for anyone's pity or demand them to respect or give a rat's ass for what *I* as an individual do. But, I do hope that the citizenry understands the symbolism brought about by an assault upon the murder of a law enforcement officer. It is a tragedy not simply for the officers involved and their families, but also for society as a whole. For, without them there will be anarchy. If not for the individual, mourn, then, for that which they represent - law and order.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  9. #19
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    I don't believe anybody is suggesting that a tragic death should be ignored, overlooked, swept under the carpet.

    What I do think is being said though, is that we're really not in a place to decide whose death is more tragic than anybody else's death.

    When we start doing that, aren't we doing the exact same thing as what you're standing against?

  10. #20
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    Default Re: End of Watch

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    I don't believe anybody is suggesting that a tragic death should be ignored, overlooked, swept under the carpet.

    What I do think is being said though, is that we're really not in a place to decide whose death is more tragic than anybody else's death.

    When we start doing that, aren't we doing the exact same thing as what you're standing against?
    And I don't recall ever claiming that one death is any more tragic that another - that subjective determination was brought up by another poster. But, the manner of the assault and upon whom does matter. If not for the tragedy of the loss of life, then for the symbolism of the act itself.

    3,000 deaths in NYC due to a terrorist act would have been little more than a significant bump in the homicide rate in 2001 had it not been for the nature and symbolism of the attack. The death of a serviceman is statistically unimportant as well when you consider that immensely more people are murdered by firearms each year than have been killed in battle in any year since Korea (I believe), yet we still honor them. The assassination of a president is the death of but one man, yet the symbolism of such an attack would be astronomical and far more tragic than the death of any other man. The symbolism of an attack on a governor, Senator, Congressman, or any public official is an attack that makes the act more poignant than your typical and senseless murder.

    True, in the eyes of the Lord, no one death is greater than another. But, when the attacks occur upon the social controls of our society, and law & order, they take on a greater symbolism that is important to remember.
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

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