Returning an Overpayment of Wages

[jk]

While this is perfectly ok, I personally wouldn't do it. Exercise your right of offset. Just pay them the difference. In a situation like this, I can see the gym people being so upset that they'd stop payment on the check. By paying the difference, you don't have to sue or deal with any bounced check charges, and if the gym decides your calculations are wrong, let them be the one doing the filing, the serving, and paying the court costs for hopefully something that doesn't put one extra dollar in their pocket.
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right of offset? The OP owes money that was overpaid. The employer does not have to offset diddly squat. They can issue the paychecks owed and demand the amount of over payment.

but what they hey, go ahead and show me that law about the employee being able to demand a right of offset I'm missing. Go ahead and show me where an employee (or former employee) can determine how a business runs their payroll and accounting.



another reason this offset scheme won't work:

the paychecks are proof of payment from an employer to an employee. If there is no paycheck, there is no proof the employee was paid. That's kind of important.

Along with that paycheck would be the associated deductions etc. If they simply cancelled the checks, the IRS and other gov agencies would not get their fair share of the income.


and here is why an employer cannot simply cancel a paycheck owed:

Pursuant to N.C.G.S. §95-25.8, Withholding of Wages, an employer may withhold or divert any portion of an employee’s wages when:

(1) N.C.G.S. §95-25.8(a)(1) - The employer is required to do so by state or federal law.
(Example: income taxes, FICA and court ordered garnishments.)

(2) N.C.G.S. §95-25.8(a)(2) - The amount of a proposed deduction is known and agreed upon in advance and the written authorization is: (a) signed on or before the pay day in which the deduction will be made, (b) includes the reason for the deduction, and (c) states the actual dollar amount or percentage of wages that are to be withheld.

Example: John Smith is hired by the Any Company on Nov. 1, 2005. John is issued a cell phone valued at $150 on his first day of employment, and he signs/dates a payroll deduction authorization that states:


I, John Smith, have received a cell phone valued at $150.00 to use in conjunction with my work assignments with Any Company. I understand that if I fail to return the phone upon my separation of employment, $150 will be deducted from my final paycheck.
______________________ _________
Signature Date

This deduction authorization is valid, regardless of if John Smith leaves the company after one month or five years of employment. The authorization meets all of the requirements set out in the current deduction provisions. It is signed in advance of the deduction being made, it includes the reason for the deduction, and it includes a specific dollar amount. No additional notice to the employee is necessary prior to the deduction being made, nor can the employee withdraw the authorization since the deduction is for the benefit of the employer.

Note: An employee may withdraw their written authorization for a specific deduction if the deduction is for the benefit of the employee. Deductions for the benefit of the employee include, but are not limited to, savings plans, parking fees, charitable contributions and uniforms that are NOT required by the employer. A written authorization for specific deductions that are for the benefit of the employer may NOT be withdrawn by the employee. Deductions for the benefit of the employer include, but are not limited to, use of the employer’s equipment, cash register shortages, inventory shortages and uniforms that are required by the employer.

retaining the checks owed would be a deduction from their pay. Unless OP signs an authorization, it simply is not legal.


and again, take a moment and find that law that allows a former employee to demand they offset as you suggest.

[chyvan]

Do you pay the tree trimmer that knocks on your door before he trims?

Sure, you can do that, but when he drives away with your money without trimming your tree, then what?

I'd rather not be the person that has to do the collection work. When you owe someone money, and they want it, you're in a position to get them to do what is right without having to involve anyone else in your problems.

She admits to owing him money sounds like she's willing to pay, but he owes her for the cancelled membership and held checks. He's already resorting to self help, and for that reason, I wouldn't be surprised if the guy stops payment on the checks just to prove a point.

You're not wrong, but I don't think I'm wrong either. At least with my way, there's no small claim court, no wage claims, and no wrong W-2s six months after the fact. I'd want a nice clean break.

There doesn't have to be a law that she can dictate policy. She's got the money, and she can negotiate for a clean break. She's not unreasonable in wanting to avoid any further interactions once this transaction is over. If the employer preceives that as the path of least resistance, he'll do it.

[cbg]

Look.

There are laws and regs and procedures that the employer MUST follow. That are not optional. That they can get into legal trouble for ignoring.

Your way does not take these REQUIRED processes into consideration.

So yes, you are wrong.

[jk]

Actuslly, yes there would have to be a law for the employee to be able to dictate how an employer run their business and there are none. The employer is required by law to pay an employee. Some states even require an employer be given a check stub. In your method there would be no check stub so at least in those states that require a check stub, your method would not work.

Additionaly, specifically in ops state the employee must sign an authorization to allow the employer take any deductions from their pay. Care to guess who doesn't have to provide nor accept such an authorization?


the only thing the op can dictate is the employer give her her paychecks owed. Neither she nor the employer have a right to withhold monies owed the other party to attempt to force the other act in some way.

And the the refund for the membership is a totally seperate matter.

- - - Updated - - -

And one more thing; while I don't see anything criminal at the moment, if anything might push it that way would be the op withholding money owed to the employer. right now conversion comes to mind as she knowingly used another's property for her own purposes. Now she is refusing to refund the overpayment. Put those two together and....well, I surely would never advise a person head down that path.

[chyvan]

She can show up at the gym with about $700 in cash. The employer can give her a check for the $199 refund. She can take the corresponding amount of money from the pile, stuff it back in her back, and endorse the check, and hand it back.

The employer can give her paychecks and refunded FICA, she can take the corresponding amount from the pile, stuff it back in her pocket, endorse the checks and hand them back. The employer can even let her have the paystubs If the employer choses not to get his portion and her portion of the overwithheld tax, that's his problem now, and not hers. She's been made whole.

I don't know if an employer can give a W-2 early, but if he can, he could hand her a correct one of those now, and she can hand him the money left in the pile and get a receipt that the money was paid back.

No laws were broken, the checks act as receipts, and it's over.

[jk]

Again, the gym membership has nothing to do with the wages situation. Attempting to mix them together will probably not end well

While you can go on and on with various possible scenarios, the op has no right to demand anything other than she receive any pay owed to her. The employer is not obligated to do anything other than deliver op her pay.

Op is obligated to pay the employer any overpayment previously paid to her.

If the employer does not want to use your offset method, they just don't have to regardless how many times you say op should demand they act as such. So far it appears employer does not want to use your offset method as they have already told the op exactly that.

[Mr. Knowitall]

She can show up at the gym with about $700 in cash. The employer can give her a check for the $199 refund. She can take the corresponding amount of money from the pile, stuff it back in her back, and endorse the check, and hand it back.

A business is not a bank, and odds are the payroll is either outsourced or handled elsewhere. If she wants to work something out in advance, and the requisite paperwork is in place when she goes to the business, that may be possible. If she waltzes in and expects the employer to provide exact figures, make change, and give her a discount off of the amount she owes instead of turning over her paychecks, I expect she's going to end up with nothing but a big, unproductive mess.