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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    20,415

    Default The Full Employment Act... for Criminals

    This monstrosity is on our ballot in CA and is giving me one more reason to want to retire early and flee the state before we get overrun!

    http://ballotpedia.org/California_Pr...tiative_(2014)

    If you read into the details of the code sections being modified, this proposal (which has overwhelming public support because of its namby-pamby titling, and claims to save the state millions that can (but, do not have to) be shuffled into prevention and feel-good programs. What the supporters fail to relate are the consequences of this legislation on the general public. Get ready, if this passes, there will be almost literally no consequences for drug use or possession, or for most property crimes. And we think the public is scared NOW?!

    Our liberal governor vetoed similar legislation twice before and we were told two years ago that there was a movement afoot to put something like this on the ballot through our cockamamie initiative process here, and here we have it! It's too fringe for our very liberal governor and veto-proof liberal majority in both houses of the state legislature, so that should say something about this!

    All I can say is, wow! And, Katie bar the door, because crime is a comin'!
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    OH10
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    17,019

    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    I've said it before. CA is the model for the destruction of the US as we know it. The people at the top are reaping billions while the people keep footing the bill. The CEO of my wife's ESOP lives there in a house that would cost about $70k here.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
    View Post
    I've said it before. CA is the model for the destruction of the US as we know it. The people at the top are reaping billions while the people keep footing the bill. The CEO of my wife's ESOP lives there in a house that would cost about $70k here.
    The people at the top are fleeing CA in droves - as are their businesses. We are at a tipping point here where nearly half of the people in the state receive some form of government handout and the rest of us are being asked to foot a larger and larger portion of the bill! Our gas taxes are set to rise by up to 50 cents per gallon in January due to some new environmental taxes, jobs are disappearing, environmental regulation has set the bar so high that previously state of the art water treatment facilities are no longer sufficient and they have to spend MILLIONS to upgrade them further! Water rates are skyrocketing, jobs are leaving, and now we're going to let thieves and dopers (most often the same thing) off the hook for their crimes and release upwards of 10,000 inmates or more from prison after they demand re-sentencing and release on the plea agreements where violent crimes and serious felonies were dropped to property crimes or drug offenses.

    Yes, it's a flippin' nightmare waiting to happen!
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    17,288

    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post

    All I can say is, wow! And, Katie bar the door, because crime is a comin'!
    And with California's draconian anti-gun laws, law abiding citizens will be fish in the barrel.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2005
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    California
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    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    Quote Quoting adjusterjack
    View Post
    And with California's draconian anti-gun laws, law abiding citizens will be fish in the barrel.
    Well, I don't know that they are quite "draconian" ... it's still a ticket for a low grade misdemeanor to unlawfully possess a concealed and loaded firearm and a felony to carry a concealed knife or dagger, and anyone can have a gun in their home (provided they are not disqualified as a result of criminal activity, mental health, or restraining orders). It's expensive to own a gun here because of taxes on firearms and ammo, but, the laws are not too much different than many other states with regards to owning them. Now, if you are talking about types of weapons and carrying in public, yeah, we're rather restrictive.

    But, yeah, thieves will have a field day because there will be no consequences. Many police departments and prosecutors offices don't even investigate or prosecute misdemeanor property crimes these days as a result of diminished staffing and resources, so this will be a free-for-all! And with all dope possession being misdemeanors, all that money going to drug treatment will eventually be able to be re-allocated to some politician's new favorite fad because there will be no more incentive to take drug court, Prop 36, or other diversion programs because a misdemeanor will have very little effect on them. Shoplifting will run off the hook so prices will rise and/or businesses will close or will take stringent measures to protect themselves (think a polite receipt check at the door was an imposition?). And check fraud ... well, check fraud becomes a misdemeanor and cannot be charged as burglary for amounts under $950 so what is already a rather lucrative criminal activity to many small businesses will just get worse.

    Ah, yes, this is GREAT legislation! But, we'll save money because these crooks won't be in prison! They'll just be in our neighborhoods, instead ...
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
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    Florida
    Posts
    2,344

    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    I doubt people are fleeing California in droves to escape it's coddling of criminals in its criminal code. I compare the proposed CA ballot initiative to the laws here in Florida, where minor offenses can be harshly punished with regularity. One man here, who had gotten addicted to painkillers when he lost an eye a couple of years earlier, sold $1800 worth of painkillers to a new "friend" who turned out to be a police informant. Florida law required a minimum of 25 years in prison for his crime.

    Society has always ebbed and flowed in the harshness of its criminal penalties. Crimes other than murder used to receive capital punishment, but then society decided that was overly harsh. Things got out of control in the '70s with violent criminals serving only a year or two of 20 year sentences. There is no perfect system for administering criminal justice, but I think it's good to re-evaluate once in a while. Locking people up and throwing away the key imposes a very very very heavy burden on society in terms of incarceration costs and then the social cost of releasing institutionalized people who committed relatively minor crimes back into society. It's a reasonable debate to have.

  7. #7
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    California
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    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    Quote Quoting Bubba Jimmy
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    I doubt people are fleeing California in droves to escape it's coddling of criminals in its criminal code.
    Businesses have been ... not because of the lax laws, but because of the anti-business climate and hefty taxes, fees and assessments businesses are compelled to pay here.

    I compare the proposed CA ballot initiative to the laws here in Florida, where minor offenses can be harshly punished with regularity. One man here, who had gotten addicted to painkillers when he lost an eye a couple of years earlier, sold $1800 worth of painkillers to a new "friend" who turned out to be a police informant. Florida law required a minimum of 25 years in prison for his crime.
    Yeah, well, that (prison) doesn't happen here under current law, so it sure as HECK ain't gonna happen with the new molly-coddling.

    There is no perfect system for administering criminal justice, but I think it's good to re-evaluate once in a while.
    That is always happening, and it should. But, the new legislation removes discretion from prosecutors and the courts, removes incentives to get into drug counseling, permits even career thieves and burglars to remain on the street, removes penalties for most repeat offenses, and comes at a time when police and prosecutorial resources are so taxed that they are not even able to prosecute these types of offenses.

    I'll tell you why some COURTS are for this ... they are losing money. With fewer misdemeanors being filed, they are receiving fewer quickly settled cases with fines that go - in part - into the court's coffers. With prosecutors emphasizing felonies, it ties up resources to pursue the serious cases that take time and resources away rather than focusing on the lesser crimes that often result in quick sentencing agreements and fines. One argument is that the prosecutors can now focus on these lesser offenses ... sure, they can, but they will be dealing with them all the time as there will be no means by which the career criminal can be held to account for repeat offenses. The discretion has been eliminated, and the incentive to pursue the straight and narrow is even less than it was before.

    CA recently enacted AB 109 which ALREADY shifted much of the burden from the state back down to the counties ... they have promised funding to the counties to help pay for this, but they have not GUARANTEED this funding stream. So, now, with formerly prison-bound felons already disposed of in local jails or released to local supervision (staffed with revenue that can dry up at any moment) we will be also keeping repeat and career felons that used to go to prison on the streets preying on the public. THIS legislation is not what is needed.

    When they have to do an end run around the state government because they can't even sneak this through a very left-leaning state legislature or risk a veto by a liberal governor, you KNOW it has to be bad!
    **********
    Retired Cal Cop Sergeant & Teacher

    Seek justice,
    Love mercy,
    Walk humbly with your God

    -- Courageous, by Casting Crowns ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkM-gDcmJeM

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,988

    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    The measure would require misdemeanor sentencing instead of felony for the following crimes:[1][2]

    Shoplifting, where the value of property stolen does not exceed $950
    Grand theft, where the value of the stolen property does not exceed $950
    Receiving stolen property, where the value of the property does not exceed $950
    Forgery, where the value of forged check, bond or bill does not exceed $950
    Fraud, where the value of the fraudulent check, draft or order does not exceed $950
    Writing a bad check, where the value of the check does not exceed $950
    Personal use of most illegal drugs
    this is the dumbest thing I have heard of in a long time.

  9. #9
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    Jul 2007
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    Florida
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    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
    View Post

    Yeah, well, that (prison) doesn't happen here under current law, so it sure as HECK ain't gonna happen with the new molly-coddling.
    One source I consulted said that from 1982 - 2000 CA's prison population grew 500%. I lived there from 1987-1994 and I remember when the massive prison building effort was funded by ballot initiative. I was amazed at how much the state was willing to spend. I don't have a dog in the fight any more. I focus on my own state where prosecution can be arbitrary, abusive, malicious, and fraudulent. Unless you're one of the good ol' boys, of course.

    As far as misdemeanor sentencing for thefts under $951, seems reasonable to me. The threshhold for grand theft in Florida has been $300 since the time when $300 was well over $1000 in today's dollars. The law does need adjusting from time to time.

    How long should an addict engaged only in personal use of drugs be locked up for? How does it help society to do that?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
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    Somewhere near Canada
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    35,894

    Default Re: The Full Employment Act . for Criminals

    The chronic pot user will move to WA, where he'll pay for his... supply...legally (and pay taxes, too), contributing to the overall financial welfare of the state.

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