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  1. #1
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    Default Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    My question involves traffic court in the State of: California

    It's not really a question...more of a statement.

    In Sacramento County, a motorist cited for a Red Light Camera Violation who is requesting a Trial By Declaration must stipulate that they are NOT challenging the fact that they are not the driver. So, if you got one of these citations, don't plan on fighting it by mail in the corrupt Sacramento County Court, unless your defense centers on something other than driver identity! In other words, if you live in San Diego (and have never been to Sacramento) and the Camera Company incorrectly typed your license plate number, you'll need to appear in person. Ever been to Sacramento...it's very scenic. Oh, and if you're wondering whether this is legal...NO, IT ISN'T. Apparently, the previous local court form of this nature said "I stipulate that I was the driver in the photograph!" Even worse, and less legal. WHAT A COUNTRY! (OR SHOULD THAT BE "WHAT A COUNTY!") You might ask where the Commission on Judicial Performance is on this. Good question. I think it's in Sacramento.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Beware of Court Scam in Sacramento County

    So you don't get treated special and must appear in court like in the 49 other states. Hang on a sec, I feel it, I feel it......... there it is, I shed one tear for you.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Beware of Court Scam in Sacramento County

    I'm pretty sure that there is a way to protest the driver identity even without resorting to TBD. Did you actually contact the court as requested on the notice?

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Beware of Court Scam in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
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    So you don't get treated special and must appear in court like in the 49 other states. Hang on a sec, I feel it, I feel it......... there it is, I shed one tear for you.
    Actually, there are nine TBD states. This fact, and your comment for that matter, have nothing to do with the price of tea in China.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    I'm pretty sure that there is a way to protest the driver identity even without resorting to TBD. Did you actually contact the court as requested on the notice?
    There is. Frequently, the person cited is directed to "nominate" the actual driver if not them. This is regardless of the fact that they have no legal obligation to do so. If you don't like that option as the defendant, you can point out the identity confusion to the law enforcement agency and the citing officer MAY ask the court in writing to dismiss but is not required to do so. In one case I'm familiar with in Oxnard, CA, the defendant (obviously 30 years older than the driver in the photo) showed up for trial and the citing officer immediately told him he could leave as the citation would not be prosecuted. This was AFTER the defendant called the police department and informed the citing officer of the incorrect driver identity. I wonder what would have happened if the defendant didn't show up.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    My wife prefers her tea from the plantation outside Charleston.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Where do you get this from? I fail to find this in the Sacramento County Court's rules. Is this on some informational form at the courthouse?

    EDIT: Okay ... after a few searches, I found it. http://www.saccourt.ca.gov/traffic/d...eclaration.pdf

    I suppose this is one of those things that will stand until challenged. Keep in mind that VC 40902 provides that they "shall, by rule" provide a means for a trial by declaration. I suppose it is an arguable assumption that the court may provide for certain conditions in those rules. At least until this is successfully challenged, it appears that the Sacramento County Superior Court will require people challenging their identity in a red light camera matter to appear in court. I suppose this may be because when they appear the court can direct the defendant to identify the driver ... whether the court does this or not, I can't say as I have never witnessed it, and when I worked there they did not have red light cameras. But, it's a possibility.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    Where do you get this from? I fail to find this in the Sacramento County Court's rules. Is this on some informational form at the courthouse?

    EDIT: Okay ... after a few searches, I found it. http://www.saccourt.ca.gov/traffic/d...eclaration.pdf

    I suppose this is one of those things that will stand until challenged. Keep in mind that VC 40902 provides that they "shall, by rule" provide a means for a trial by declaration. I suppose it is an arguable assumption that the court may provide for certain conditions in those rules. At least until this is successfully challenged, it appears that the Sacramento County Superior Court will require people challenging their identity in a red light camera matter to appear in court. I suppose this may be because when they appear the court can direct the defendant to identify the driver ... whether the court does this or not, I can't say as I have never witnessed it, and when I worked there they did not have red light cameras. But, it's a possibility.
    On what basis would the court direct the defendant to make such a declaration? The matter relevant in the pending case is whether the defendant can be proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt...not whether the defendant knows who actually was driving. (Not that a court can't act beyond the scope of its legitimate authority...)

    Apparently, the Commission of Judicial Performance won't do anything about it so my guess is that an appeal beyond the Appellate Division will be required...or a public outcry.

    Regardless of any of this, the policy is totally illegitimate. If there is concern that a defendant would improperly challenge identity at TBD, the local rule could require that the defendant provide a recent photo (as part of the sworn TBD statement) which could be used for identity comparison.

    Then again, why let an easy solution get in the way of the money collected.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting donzoh1
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    On what basis would the court direct the defendant to make such a declaration?
    A judge can ask a person just about anything he chooses to. The 5th Amendment would not apply. Whether that would be done or not, i can't say, but the judge can and often will ask clarifying questions in traffic as well as criminal trials.

    Apparently, the Commission of Judicial Performance won't do anything about it so my guess is that an appeal beyond the Appellate Division will be required...or a public outcry.
    Maybe someday ... or, maybe, it's perfectly acceptable and lawful.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Red Light Camera Violation Ticket Procedure in Sacramento County

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    A judge can ask a person just about anything he chooses to. The 5th Amendment would not apply. Whether that would be done or not, i can't say, but the judge can and often will ask clarifying questions in traffic as well as criminal trials.


    Maybe someday ... or, maybe, it's perfectly acceptable and lawful.
    And I can ask for a million dollars. If the defendant is obviously not the person pictured, but is required to name the driver, the next logical step would be to charge the law enforcement officer with perjury for signing a sworn Probable Cause Statement on the Notice to Appear without such cause. I wouldn't think the court would try to enlist the defendant's help in a low-level criminal investigation in that case.

    The Sacramento Court practice is not acceptable and might be illegal, depending on what the Appeals Court eventually determines. The best purpose of TBD with respect to Red Light Camera citations is probably disputing identity. When identity is obviously wrong, the defendant should not be required to miss time from work or undertake other expense (i.e. driving from another county, etc.) in order to make an effective defense. (I know there are probably cops out there don't care much about this line of thinking as they are PAID to be there in court.) Need I quote the Goulet case again here?

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