Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14

Hybrid View

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    8

    Default Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: VA

    I have posted before. It's a complicated situation so if something isn't clear please ask.

    TEXAS CPS removed three of my four children due to mental health concerns (myself) and a history of substance abuse (my husband)and placed them with their grandparents in VA. My husband and I agreed to give them custody and have TX close their CPS case, with the off-the-record agreement that we would move to VA, get on our feet and they would give us back custody. The case was officially closed in TX this summer and we four adults share joint legal custody, with the grandparents having physical custody.

    Of course, we moved here, established ourselves, etc and now the grandparents (who are receiving nearly $2000/month in stipend and benefits for the three kids) do not want to give them back. They have violated the court order numerous times, denying visitation, prohibiting phone contact, making a scene and calling police when we come to the school/doctor appts to name a few. We have been in VA and stable for over a year, with plenty of proof that the issues TX claimed we had, are non-issues. I have had a psych eval done, am in therapy, my husband has clean random drug tests through work. We have added the kids to his health insurance, have never missed a visit in 14 months, are successfully parenting our 10 month old, are active in our religious community. The g'parents are vicious and spiteful and even their own friends have commented that their behavior makes no sense.

    Two weeks ago during a visit there was a disagreement about vaccines. Hubby and I have a religious objection to certain vaccines and provided my parents with a religious exemption form so that our 4 yo could be enrolled in preschool. My father said that he didn't give a you know what about what we said and that would "stick her as much as I want" as soon as they left the visit, just to be spiteful. We withheld her at the end of the visit, a Saturday, (ONLY her, not our other two) and went to court first thing when the weekend was over. During the course of the weekend, she disclosed to us that she had been molested. She couldn't or wouldn't name who had done it but was very sure of *what* had been done. The Judge ordered her to return home but said that at any time if CPS felt the need to remove they would do so. A forensic interview confirmed that she had been touched inappropriately, but the details of "who" remain sketchy, so since she didn't name either g'parent as a perp, they didn't have grounds to remove her. A GAL has been appointed. The Judge scheduled a custody hearing for the 19th which is next Friday. Our attorney is no longer affordable to us so we are trying to prepare for court ourselves.

    I went down to the court today and filed for custody of my other two (which we had intended to do anyway) and also filed 8 motions to show cause for the various infractions of the court order. And here is where I need help.

    I have never sat through a real custody hearing. I am someone who likes to be prepared as possible. I'd like to know, pla by play, how it will go. Who usually speaks first? Will the g'parents be given a public defender? What type of evidence can I use? For example, I have recorded phone conversations where the grandparents call us names, belittle us in front of the children, refuse to give info that we have the right to (such as the day and time of a parent teacher conference, for example.) I have emails showing the same. I have photos of bruises and pinch marks on my children, and email proof that CPS did not investigate earlier, when we asked them to. Obviously I'm close to this case so I may not be objective. I need help weeding out what is important to the judge, and what looks petty or whiny.

    I also am thinking of subpoenaing (is that a word?) witnesses who can testify to my parents' behavior. These people are friends of my parents who have accompanied them on visitation, or who babysit my children. Is this a good or bad idea? If I do bring in witnesses who are friends of mine, could they just be witnesses as to the character of my husband and I, vs the character of my parents? I'm specifically thinking of an incident where my mother physically assaulted my friend. Would this kind of testimony be helpful to us, or just as I said, look petty?

    I have also been researching and reading up on case law. Would it be helpful to quote relevant cases that had our desired outcome, to the judge? To say something like, the law has a presumption in favor of the parents, if the parents are fit, which we are, and here is the proof? Also, I read about the tender years principle. Would that apply to us since the youngest child living with the grandparents is only 2.5 years old? Where does the sibling bond come into play? Our 10 month old adores her big brother and sisters, and they her. Does a young child's preference hold any weight? Our oldest is only 6.

    I'm sure people will say, "well CPS took your kids away, you must be the bad guys." I assure you, we are not. I have been told countless times by caseworkers in Virginia that had this situation begun here, my children would have never spent a night away from home. No offense to the Texans on this board, but they grossly overreacted, fueled, as I later found out, by lies my mother told them. It is what it is, but I just say that to say my husband and I truly are the best we can be for our children.

    Any help would be much appreciated!

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    You should retain a lawyer. The court will listen to testimony from both sides and the GAL and rule in the manner they feel is in the children's best interests.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
    View Post
    You should retain a lawyer. The court will listen to testimony from both sides and the GAL and rule in the manner they feel is in the children's best interests.
    Like I mentioned in the initial post, we did have a lawyer, but we can't afford him any longer, so I'm trying to do this myself. Thousands have already been spent on this case. Now whether he is just a crappy lawyer, who's to say? He blew through the entire retainer and without even making one court appearance. Anyway, we don't have the money for a new attorney with new retainer, and we don't have the funds to give our current lawyer the $2,500 he's asking for before continuing with the case, so we are on our own.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    Behind a Desk
    Posts
    98,846

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    The fact that you're over your head, and aren't going to get the breadth and scope of assistance you need from an online forum, hasn't changed from your prior thread. Explore your eligibility for court-appointed counsel.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    The fact that you're over your head, and aren't going to get the breadth and scope of assistance you need from an online forum, hasn't changed from your prior thread. Explore your eligibility for court-appointed counsel.
    Look, I realize no one here can "fix" this for me. I realize that I am NOT a lawyer and will never make myslef into one in the course of a week or month or even year(s). I took the advice given and retained a lawyer. we can't afford him anymore. We make far too much for legal aid, and the courts will not appoint us a lawyer--I have already checked. So while I can appreciate your frustration, the advice and insight I can glean here, whether a little or a lot, is still better than nothing at all. I liken it to my piano students. They walk in and want to learn to play moonlight sonata on the first lesson. Well, I can't teach them moonlight sonata in one 30 minute lesson, but that doesn't mean they should give up and walk out. I CAN teach them to play twinkle twinkle, so I do. It's not what they were hoping for, but it's better than nothing at all. Make sense?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting llworking
    View Post
    One thing that I would suggest that you do, is take a day to sit in your particular judge's courtroom and observe the cases he hears that day. That will give you a lot of insight as to how things go in his courtroom, and what kinds of things he is interested in hearing or not hearing.
    I think the courtrooms here are closed. Is there a way to look into a particular judge's past cases/rulings? Maybe that would be helpful.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting monkeysinmybed
    View Post
    Look, I realize no one here can "fix" this for me. I realize that I am NOT a lawyer and will never make myslef into one in the course of a week or month or even year(s). I took the advice given and retained a lawyer. we can't afford him anymore. We make far too much for legal aid, and the courts will not appoint us a lawyer--I have already checked. So while I can appreciate your frustration, the advice and insight I can glean here, whether a little or a lot, is still better than nothing at all. I liken it to my piano students. They walk in and want to learn to play moonlight sonata on the first lesson. Well, I can't teach them moonlight sonata in one 30 minute lesson, but that doesn't mean they should give up and walk out. I CAN teach them to play twinkle twinkle, so I do. It's not what they were hoping for, but it's better than nothing at all. Make sense?

    - - - Updated - - -



    I think the courtrooms here are closed. Is there a way to look into a particular judge's past cases/rulings? Maybe that would be helpful.
    No, they are not published.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Posts
    16,474

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting monkeysinmybed
    View Post
    Like I mentioned in the initial post, we did have a lawyer, but we can't afford him any longer, so I'm trying to do this myself. Thousands have already been spent on this case. Now whether he is just a crappy lawyer, who's to say? He blew through the entire retainer and without even making one court appearance. Anyway, we don't have the money for a new attorney with new retainer, and we don't have the funds to give our current lawyer the $2,500 he's asking for before continuing with the case, so we are on our own.
    One thing that I would suggest that you do, is take a day to sit in your particular judge's courtroom and observe the cases he hears that day. That will give you a lot of insight as to how things go in his courtroom, and what kinds of things he is interested in hearing or not hearing.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Feb 2011
    Posts
    576

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting monkeysinmybed
    View Post
    I have also been researching and reading up on case law. Would it be helpful to quote relevant cases that had our desired outcome, to the judge?
    To say something like,the law has a presumption in favor of the parents, if the parents are fit, which we are, and here is the proof?
    While that is a correct INITIAL presumption, that presumption was rebutted when the grandparents were given custody. The legal presumption NOW is the last custody order was in the children s best interests and continues to be in their best interests.

    As already stated by others here, YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY. Even with an attorney you are not guaranteed to get your children back. Without an attorney it is almost certain you will not get a change in custody.

    By the time you walk out of your upcoming hearing you will have gained a better appreciation for the realities of trying to handle this type of case on your own.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting tex11
    View Post
    While that is a correct INITIAL presumption, that presumption was rebutted when the grandparents were given custody. The legal presumption NOW is the last custody order was in the children s best interests and continues to be in their best interests.

    As already stated by others here, YOU NEED AN ATTORNEY. Even with an attorney you are not guaranteed to get your children back. Without an attorney it is almost certain you will not get a change in custody.

    By the time you walk out of your upcoming hearing you will have gained a better appreciation for the realities of trying to handle this type of case on your own.
    Ok I get that I need an attorney. I had one, I don't have one anymore, and I'm not getting another one unless someone here is offering their services pro bono. So can you please meet me where I'm at? I assure you, I have a full time job and a child to raise, and if I could afford to have an attorney do all the thinking for me so that I could focus on my job and family, I would. Believe me. The stress is enormous and I realize how difficult this will be.

    Anyway, would it not be true that we still retain that presumption because the order in which we voluntarily agreed to give custody to the grandparents has expressly stated that the parent child relationship is to be established and maintained? If that's not true, then I realize the burden of proof is on us to show that there has been a material change in circumstances. Actually, that would be the case either way. If we have corrected the issues that caused the removal (and have documented proof) and we and the grandparents are on an equal playing field as far as fitness, would it be taken into consideration that the grandparents do NOT respect the court order and go out of their way to interfere with the parent child relationship that the court ordered to be maintained?

    Yes, I know, I need a lawyer. Feel free to contribute to my gofundme account if you feel that strongly. Otherwise, just help me out and answer my questions so I can do the best I can.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    in alto mare
    Posts
    1,123

    Default Re: Taking Custody Back from Grandparents

    Quote Quoting monkeysinmybed
    View Post
    Feel free to contribute to my gofundme account if you feel that strongly..
    Well, go start one, then. I'm not kidding.

    Look, you're taking a knife to a gunfight. You need to raise the money any way you can.

    Good luck.

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Grandparents and Third Parties: How to Keep My Father from Taking custody from My Grandparents
    By OoSimpleoO in forum Child Custody, Support and Visitation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 08-19-2013, 05:18 PM
  2. Custody and Visitation Issues: Mother Getting Full Custody Back from Grandparents
    By nrshort in forum Child Custody, Support and Visitation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-18-2012, 11:28 AM
  3. Father Needs to Avoid Crazy Grandparents Taking Custody of His Son
    By theground in forum Child Custody, Support and Visitation
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 12-05-2009, 09:53 PM
  4. Grandparents and Third Parties: Taking Children Back from Grandparents' Care
    By gadoc in forum Child Custody, Support and Visitation
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-27-2009, 03:41 AM
  5. Grandparents and Third Parties: Father May Want Custody Back From Grandparents
    By bandmchick in forum Child Custody, Support and Visitation
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-25-2006, 02:39 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources