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  1. #1

    Default Third Party Contact as a Restraining Order Violation

    My question involves restraining orders in the State of: illinois

    I have a plenary order of protection against me in the state of illinois .
    The result of a messy breakup and bad legal advice .
    I was recently arrested for breach of the P/O by third party contact . for calling my child .
    The petitioner his mother had him make a statement to the police that i asked him to pass her a msg .
    I was arrested , charged , the charges were then dismissed and then re instated as the states attorney had leave to and applied on the grounds that their witness was sent to the wrong courtroom and wished to proceed
    BUT , the P/O does not specifically forbid third party contact .
    In fact it doesn;t mention it at all .
    Only 'no contact by any means '
    Am i correct that the P/O must specify the remedies that the court requires , and that as 'no third party contact ' is not listed as a remedy , that i have been wrongly arrested and charged ?

  2. #2
    Join Date
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    Somewhere near Canada
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    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    "Any means" = ANY MEANS.

    I'm not entirely sure why this is confusing to you?

  3. #3

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    You are not understanding the point ..
    "No contact by any means " does not specify specific remedies .
    The allegation is that by calling my own child , that i violated the P/O , by third party contact .
    The child is 16 and not a protected person .
    The P/O ,as i understand it, must list the remedies that the court requires .
    The remedy of ' no third party contact ' is not listed .
    Therefore , i do not think i am in violation of the P/O .
    "By Any Means " refers to the petitioner , ie .. not by mail , telephone , smoke signals , e.t.c...e.t.c..

  4. #4
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    Oct 2006
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    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    Quote Quoting davidschicago
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    You are not understanding the point ..
    "No contact by any means " does not specify specific remedies .
    The allegation is that by calling my own child , that i violated the P/O , by third party contact .
    The child is 16 and not a protected person .
    The P/O ,as i understand it, must list the remedies that the court requires .
    The remedy of ' no third party contact ' is not listed .
    Therefore , i do not think i am in violation of the P/O .
    "By Any Means " refers to the petitioner , ie .. not by mail , telephone , smoke signals , e.t.c...e.t.c..
    It was not the calling your son that caused your problem. It was asking him to pass a message to his mother. That is third party contact. Third party contact IS a means of contact...just like mail, telephone, smoke signals etc.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    BUT ,
    1 . it was not a specified remedy of the P/O . I have seen others that specifically specify no third party contact , mine does not .
    2 . there is no criminal charge aside from the 'third party contact'

    I will of course be disputing the 'asking him to pass a msg bit '.. the jist of what he has said was that i asked him to ask her to get her legal representative to contact me so as to negotiate the terms of a divorce . fwiw


    (750 ILCS 60/221) (from Ch. 40, par. 2312-21)
    Sec. 221. Contents of orders.
    (a) Any order of protection shall describe the following:
    (1) Each remedy granted by the court, in reasonable

    detail and not by reference to any other document, so that respondent may clearly understand what he or she must do or refrain from doing. Pre-printed form orders of protection shall include the definitions of the types of abuse, neglect, and exploitation, as provided in Section 103. Remedies set forth in pre-printed form orders shall be numbered consistently with and corresponding to the numerical sequence of remedies listed in Section 214 (at least as of the date the form orders are printed).

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    15,932

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    Quote Quoting davidschicago
    View Post
    BUT ,
    1 . it was not a specified remedy of the P/O . I have seen others that specifically specify no third party contact , mine does not .
    2 . there is no criminal charge aside from the 'third party contact'

    I will of course be disputing the 'asking him to pass a msg bit '.. the jist of what he has said was that i asked him to ask her to get her legal representative to contact me so as to negotiate the terms of a divorce . fwiw


    (750 ILCS 60/221) (from Ch. 40, par. 2312-21)
    Sec. 221. Contents of orders.
    (a) Any order of protection shall describe the following:
    (1) Each remedy granted by the court, in reasonable

    detail and not by reference to any other document, so that respondent may clearly understand what he or she must do or refrain from doing. Pre-printed form orders of protection shall include the definitions of the types of abuse, neglect, and exploitation, as provided in Section 103. Remedies set forth in pre-printed form orders shall be numbered consistently with and corresponding to the numerical sequence of remedies listed in Section 214 (at least as of the date the form orders are printed).
    Your order stated "By any means" which eliminated the need to list out what those means were.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    that does not meet this as a qualification "so that respondent may clearly understand what he or she must do or refrain from doing"
    If that was the case , why would other P/O.s specifically ban 'third party contact '
    I think i have a reasonable argument , that i am not in violation ..

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
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    15,932

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    Quote Quoting davidschicago
    View Post
    that does not meet this as a qualification "so that respondent may clearly understand what he or she must do or refrain from doing"
    If that was the case , why would other P/O.s specifically ban 'third party contact '
    I think i have a reasonable argument , that i am not in violation ..
    If you are this stubborn about understanding what a legal document means, then it would really be in your best interest to be represented by an attorney, before you dig yourself into a deeper hole than you are in now.

    If I were in your shoes, I would be explaining to the court that I did not understand that my order meant and would be apologizing profusely for accidentally violating the order.

    If you want a divorce, get an attorney to file for divorce. Having her served divorce papers will not be third party contact.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Location
    Somewhere near Canada
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    35,894

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    Quote Quoting davidschicago
    View Post
    that does not meet this as a qualification "so that respondent may clearly understand what he or she must do or refrain from doing"
    If that was the case , why would other P/O.s specifically ban 'third party contact '
    I think i have a reasonable argument , that i am not in violation ..

    Fine.

    Keep ending up in court for a breach, and come back when you've sat and enjoyed 3 hots and a cot for awhile.

    No doubt we'll still be here when the other parent manages to TPR because you refuse to follow the rules.

  10. #10

    Default Re: Third Party Contact

    I have already filed for the divorce . lol ..
    It's not a matter of being stubborn , i think i have a good argument . I can not be held in violation of a P/O for an unspecified remedy that a reasonable person could not assume .
    I shall argue the case . i was only posting here to get more input .
    For this alleged violation , i have so far been charged twice ,and done 16 days in jail !!
    If as i suspect the PO needs to specify the courts required remedies , IN DETAIL ... then i have been wrongly arrested , and inprisioned !!
    And i would therefore have a good case to seek damages .
    If not and i am supposed to accept the tenure of your argument , then i am looking potentially at more time in jail and possibly deportation . for calling my 16 year old son and not committing any other criminal act in so doing .
    So as you can imagine .. i welcome any opinion !!
    Thanks
    d

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