How to Enforce a U.S. Child Support Order in a Non-Reciprocating Nation

[Dogmatique]

thank you tex11,

Ok non reciprocating countries have own laws BUT a US money judgment is recognizable anywhere in the world correct?

Recognizable, sure. Enforceable? Not so much.

It doesn't have to start from scratch. It has to be translated and recognized by the court. I already contacted a Spain lawyer and they
want about 6K to complete the process, all they need is his address.

And in any case, does Interpol help to chase criminal around the world?

Of course they don't.

I am really surprised that no one here has no experience/reference/ in collecting child support from a father that live in another country

I'm really surprised you expect a relatively tiny number of people on a message board to tell you whatever it is you wish to hear.

For what it's worth, the experience most people have with a parent located elsewhere is "Oh crap - I'm never going to see a red cent".

[EA1070a]

You know what, Doggie? I was shocked off my tush, but when I ran a search re: Interpol & collecting child support? They actually DO it in some cases. Granted, I don't have a lot of time tonight to dig further but I about fell out of my chair. This is NOT to get OP's hopes up because I'm almost certain that it's an extremely difficult process with a ton of hoops to jump through and probably involves locating someone for committing a crime.

I'll have more time on Sunday to do some digging, purely to satisfy my own curiosity, but I highly highly doubt that these particular circumstances will get Interpol's panties (does Interpol wear panties? LOL) in a wad.

Having an order for support and having an actual money judgment? They're only as good as the pieces of paper they're written on if there's no way to collect. I certainly wouldn't go throwing good money after bad to hire a lawyer in Spain. Maybe getting a couple of consultations in the region in which he resides, but forking out a ton of dough for this?

Honestly OP? You should count on never receiving a single penny from dad.

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BTW, were I in OP's position I would call the local Spanish Consulate for information. It's like chicken soup - couldn't hurt, might help. You'll never know unless you try. And the question to ask is if Spain will recognize the validity of a Child Support order issued in a US court.

From the bit I did read about Family Law in Spain, support is retroactive ONLY to the date of filing. Then it went into a whole bunch of fact patterns involving parents who BOTH live in Spain.

[Dogmatique]

I had dug..digged..? whatever the past tense for "dig" might be.

I DO apologize for the "of course not", to the OP.

Interpol may act if it's a criminal matter. There was a notable case out of MA, and they managed to get the offender extradited from the Dominican Republic, I believe. But it's important to note that this may have more to do with individual treaties signed between a particular US state, and the other nation and an important factor seems to be whether or not it's considered criminal or civil. It may also change things if the offender is actually a US national living abroad, versus a Spanish national who isn't a US citizen.

Frankly it's a long-shot at best.

But I'm sure our charming OP can hire an attorney to tell her that, too

[EA1070a]

I had dug..digged..? whatever the past tense for "dig" might be.

I DO apologize for the "of course not", to the OP.

Interpol may act if it's a criminal matter. There was a notable case out of MA, and they managed to get the offender extradited from the Dominican Republic, I believe. But it's important to note that this may have more to do with individual treaties signed between a particular US state, and the other nation and an important factor seems to be whether or not it's considered criminal or civil. It may also change things if the offender is actually a US national living abroad, versus a Spanish national who isn't a US citizen.

Frankly it's a long-shot at best.

But I'm sure our charming OP can hire an attorney to tell her that, too

LOL

Yeah, I saw that case involving the DR and it shocked the hell out of me. Things that make you shake your head.

But honestly, it seems as if the debtor must have committed a serious crime before they'll step in.

Going after someone for Child Support is most likely a very very very low priority, especially given all the crap going on in the world lately.

[lida]

""Having an order for support and having an actual money judgment? They're only as good as the pieces of paper they're written on if there's no way to collect. I certainly wouldn't go throwing good money after bad to hire a lawyer in Spain. Maybe getting a couple of consultations in the region in which he resides, but forking out a ton of dough for this? """


really??
what if he owes you 50K? tell me.. wouldn't you spend 7K to get $50K?

I know he has a house in Spain, they can put a lien on the house. If he sold it there are 5 years time limit to void the sale/transfer of the house,
proven that he did it with the intention of hiding money.

And, excuse me, Spain is now NOT a reciprocating country, but is part of the Hauge convention and what if one day Spain will become a reciprocating country?

There is also something all forgot here: FEDERAL charges; I know a custodial parent have also that option to have Federal charges instated
if the amount is over 5K I believe. With Federal charges in place I think the Interpol can issue a RED FLAG so he cannot fly an airplane,
am I correct here?

[Dogmatique]

""Having an order for support and having an actual money judgment? They're only as good as the pieces of paper they're written on if there's no way to collect. I certainly wouldn't go throwing good money after bad to hire a lawyer in Spain. Maybe getting a couple of consultations in the region in which he resides, but forking out a ton of dough for this? """


really??
what if he owes you 50K? tell me.. wouldn't you spend 7K to get $50K?

I know he has a house in Spain, they can put a lien on the house. If he sold it there are 5 years time limit to void the sale/transfer of the house,
proven that he did it with the intention of hiding money.

And, excuse me, Spain is now NOT a reciprocating country, but is part of the Hauge convention and what if one day Spain will become a reciprocating country?

There is also something all forgot here: FEDERAL charges; I know a custodial parent have also that option to have Federal charges instated
if the amount is over 5K I believe. With Federal charges in place I think the Interpol can issue a RED FLAG so he cannot fly an airplane,
am I correct here?

Is there actually a reason why you're being snotty rather than paying an attorney to listen to you being snotty?

Let's clarify something.

1. A custodial parent does not get a choice about whether the NCP is or is not prosecuted.

2. What do you think will happen if this guy never flies anywhere? Seriously.

You're not reading.

[lida]

A custodial parent does not get a choice about whether the NCP is or is not prosecuted""

what do you mean im sorry?

prosecution starts with me filing for contempt of court, am I wrong?

and yes you are right, I should pay an attorney but I just want to share my story and see if someone with a similar case will share their case as well

[Dogmatique]

You said that you had the option of having Federal charges filed.

You don't make that decision. That's all.

This is another reason why you need an attorney: filing for contempt involves trying to have him served, and that can be tricky in a "where the hell are they" situation. THEN you have court, and if the court does find him in contempt you'll be left waiting to figure out what the State is or isn't going to do - and if this is the first contempt hearing, you may just find yourself even more frustrated afterwards. THEN, when you've got all of your ducks in a row, you're going to have to convince Spain that it was all done properly without infringing on his rights as they pertain to Spain.

There are plenty of support groups out there - see if you can join one. This place isn't really for emotional support or even sharing experiences to any great degree, since every case will be different and sometimes the tiniest differences can be game-changing and it gets even more complex when you have to rely on whether or not your particular state has its own reciprocal arrangement with X country.

[aardvarc]

what if he owes you 50K? tell me.. wouldn't you spend 7K to get $50K?

So why are you here arguing instead of writing that $7k check to a Spanish attorney? You have every right to spend as much as you wish to pursue this. I'm sure everyone here honestly does hope that you might somehow see more coming back to you than you put in to pursue him. But we also understand the unique challenges cases like this present, and the statistical liklihood of how the VAST majority of them turn out. A lot of money LEAVES the hands of the pursuing party, and little if anything comes back - for a myriad of reasons. Maybe you'll be the exception. But it won't be accomplished on a message board. Get yourself a Spanish attorney, and go forth and wreck havoc and get medieval on dead beat dad's fanny. More power to you! Everyone here would welcome your post some time in the future telling us that dad has been tossed into a deep dark prison and all his assets, totaling all the child support he owes with interest, has been paid in full. That would be AWESOME. It's also so incredibly rare that no one is headed out to buy party favors or ice cream cake. Even in Hague countries, it's a long and expensive battle. And, unlike a fair fight on US soil, you'll be totally at the mercy of your overseas attorney (assuming you're not heading to Spain for the numerous hearings, which would be preferable, but understandibly very expensive, plus an interpreter if you're not fluent in Spanish).

I know he has a house in Spain, they can put a lien on the house. If he sold it there are 5 years time limit to void the sale/transfer of the house, proven that he did it with the intention of hiding money.

They MIGHT be able to lein his house. Even so, until and unless the house sells or dad dies and his assets are probated under Spanish law, there still isn't going to be a child support payment made out of it. If you've got more patience than dad, such that you're willing to keep renewing the order every so often until sale or death, that MIGHT be a way to see SOME money. Eventually. Or, dad could be a real bastard and let the bank take the house. Happens every day. (And when you speak with the Spanish attorney you need, make sure to ask about the probate process over there - specifically, if dad dies with debt, where would your child support order fall in ranking of who gets paid out of the estate - that's something really important for you to know if leining his property is among your lines of attack. Be really sure that you get a good explanation on this so you can properly evaluate the risk/reward and weigh how much it'll cost, verses how likely you'd see a sizeable chunk of it.)

And, excuse me, Spain is now NOT a reciprocating country, but is part of the Hauge convention and what if one day Spain will become a reciprocating country?

You might win the lottery some day too. The point? And, even Hague country cases are expensive and complicated. They only have the legal advantage of having some of the procedural aspects in place at the get go. They are by no means open and shut or a "given".

There is also something all forgot here: FEDERAL charges; I know a custodial parent have also that option to have Federal charges instated if the amount is over 5K I believe.

As noted, all you can do it make a complaint. It is 100% up to the US Attorney's office whether or not to pursue federal criminal charges, and if dad is in a place where he won't be extradited, the federal government frankly has bigger fish to fry. Again, you're welcome to pursue this if the effort will make you feel better. But it would be irresponsible and unrealistic of us to get your hopes regarding this avenue. Federal law enforcement doesn't even have the manpower to investigate bankrobberies and kidnappings properly, much less undertake cases where OTHER avenues of pursuit are possible and that don't involve violent crime. That's the simple reality. (And just to clarify, while agencies like the FBI technically have investigative authority for federal offenses, including those regarding child support, it's actually the Office of the Inspector General of the Dept of Health and Human Services who DOES the nitty gritty work on those cases, having been deputized by the Dept of Justice for that reason.) However, here's the contact info for the major NY district offices (not sure which part of NY you're in):

Southern District (NYC): 212-637-2200
Eastern District (Brooklyn): 718-254-7000
Northern District (Syracuse): 315-448-0689
Northern District (Albany) 518-431-0247
Northern District (Plattsburgh): 518-314-7811
Western District (Buffalo): 716-843-5700

With Federal charges in place I think the Interpol can issue a RED FLAG so he cannot fly an airplane, am I correct here?

If you can convince INTERPOL to get interested, sure, they may flag him for "no fly" status. Not sure how that'll put money in your pocket. Perhaps the hope is that dad will be so terribly inconvenienced at not being able to fly that he'll pay up? Dunno, maybe he will be. On the other hand, that tactic may also have the effect of keeping dad OUT of the US where US based avenues of enforcement may be much more willing and able to take action againt him (remember, the big problem you're having is that he's NOT in the US - so it seems a strange strategy to want to KEEP him out of US enforcement reach; making it impossible for him to return will pretty much cinch that everything will occur in Spain).

In any case, your avenues include, in order of importance: a) a Spanish attorney familiar with domiciling foreign court orders, b) INTERPOL, c) your local US Attorney's office

Best of luck!

PS If you happen to find a Spanish attorney familiar with domiciling US orders, you might return and post the info about how and where you found one, or even the firm name and contact info so that others with similar issues in the future might be able to benefit from the legwork. One of the reasons WE haven't been able to provide you with that information is that no one in the years I've participated here has ever reported success with family law or child support matters in the Spanish courts. You'd be the first to my knowledge. Please consider returning and sharing what you learn with other parents facing these problems. This website gets extensively crawled by the major (and minor) search engines, and if willing to share, who knows how many others seeking support for their own children you may be able to help. Thanks!

[Dogmatique]

The more I read (my boys lost today - hush), the more I'm seeing a potential third problem which hasn't yet been discussed.

In Germany (for example), a person owing child support - and I'm not sure whether this applies in general or only to non-German cases - can sign an affidavit stating he has no "countable" income and believe it or not that's acceptable to agencies trying to collect.

So what we're seeing is something ambiguous. Do we honestly expect Spain to simply follow an order based on income the father may say simply isn't there?

An attorney is essential. A message board is not.