Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 19
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Tenant's Responsibility for High Electrical Bill Caused by a Defective Appliance

    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: Florida, in a 55+ community

    i am renting out a unit in Delray Beach. Tenant moved in effective May 1. On June 9, tenant's daughter emailed me that their electricity bill from FPL was very high, that FPL saw a spike in metering on May 12th. I suggested she have FPL come check, she said they told her they checked the meter via computer, and just told her of a spike in the usage. She told me "i will see what happens next month and let you know"

    Last week, June 12th, she told me that the bill was $680 for May, and that FPL was coming out on June 18th to check what is happening.

    Yesterday, she called me and told me that FPL found that the water heater in the unit was stuck in heat mode, and that it was discharging hot water out of the pressure release valve, out the side of the house. The heater was drawing the correct current, but since it was stuck in "on" mode, the electricity usage was extremely high. I had the heater checked and replaced.

    now she is saying that she wants to figure out about the bill. the electricity bill is about $1000 now, $680 for May, and the rest is MTD accrued usage for June.

    i checked the lease. the tenant is responsible for electrical and water bills. however, this is an extreme case, where the high bill was due to the water heater becoming broken during tenancy, but in the unit owned by me. i dont know what happened between may 1 - may 12th. the unit sat unoccupied for a year so these issues werent obvious to me. in limited usage (contractors working at the unit), there was hot water, and the elec bill was no more than $40/mo

    if the spike was from May 12, and she only saw the high elec usage on the bill on June 9th, thats nearly a month of the water gushing - how is that not noticed? she then said "i will let u know what happens next month".... so, there wasnt really much urgency until there was a dollar figure attached. am i responsible for her bill? is she? is there partial responsibility?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    You had an opportunity to investigate the matter and failed to do so so blaming the tenant for not seeing the water running out of the prv drain is a poor argument. Additonally water isn't going to blast out of the valve continually but only after the pressure became so great it was activated. At other times it would not be noticeable.

    Then, unless the pipe was visable in regular activities, it may never have been noticed. If the pipe had much of any length, it may have been nothing more than an occasional trickle.
    so, bottom line; why should they be liable for an issue that they nor you noticed but was due to a defective appliance and where the situation was not investigated by you when it should have been.

    As as far as I see it, the cost is on you. I would suggest paying the bill in full and check the next couple of months to determine what a typical bill should be and then expect the tenant to reimburse you for 2 months of typical electrical costs


    and to what caused it: thermostats on water heaters to bad from time to time. Especially since there was a period of no use for some period of time, it is simply a matter of it happens.

    The one thing that you said nothing about that might come into play for your benefit though is the klixon switch incorporated into the thermostat. I would be surprised if that did not have to be reset regularly as the thermostat was stuck. It is to prevent overheating of the tank and what was happening was overheating the tank. Either the klixon switch was also defective or the tenant reset it regularly. If they were resetting it and did not notify you, I would flip the liability for the excessive bills back onto them as that was negligent on their part to not notify you

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    thank you for the reply. for what its worth, i live in NYC, so i had no means of investigating the matter other than speaking to the tenant and requesting/advising them to have FPL to come check it out. by the logic of me being able to investigate and see something wrong, they should have also seen the problem. as it was described to me by both the tenant and the FPL tech, the water was gushing, not trickling. the unit is the end unit, so if the water is gushing outside, this should have been seen by at least someone (ie grounds crew of the community?) - this wasnt an internal leak.

    are you referring to the thermostat reset switch that trips if the element gets too hot? no mention of that by the tenant (either willful omission, or there wasnt a switch for them to reset/see). if it did trip, how could the heater keep going (i know this isnt an HVAC forum, just throwing out ideas)

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    ekinnyc;814935]thank you for the reply. for what its worth, i live in NYC, so i had no means of investigating the matter other than speaking to the tenant and requesting/advising them to have FPL to come check it out.
    by the logic of me being able to investigate and see something wrong, they should have also seen the problem.
    actually they did not have the authority or responsibility to do much investigating at all. As the landlord, that is squarely on your shoulders.

    FPL isn't going to do much of anything regarding a water heater. Their responsibility ends at the meter.

    as it was described to me by both the tenant and the FPL tech, the water was gushing, not trickling. the unit is the end unit, so if the water is gushing outside, this should have been seen by at least someone (ie grounds crew of the community?) - this wasnt an internal leak.
    well, then there was more than the thermostat that was a problem. PRV's are simple spring operated devices. They reset once the pressure drops below their limit so there would be a release of enough water to reduce the pressure after which it would close and there would be no water flow. If water was gushing, then the PRV also failed.

    but if water was gushing, why didn't anybody notice it and say something to somebody about the issue?

    are you referring to the thermostat reset switch that trips if the element gets too hot?
    it has nothing to do with the element getting too hot. It is a temp limit for the tank temperature. If the water tank gets too hot, it trips. I have never seen one that self resets although I suppose there could be such an animal out there. Generally you have to reset it. It tripping is an indicator of a problem so you would not want it to reset by itself.

    no mention of that by the tenant (either willful omission, or there wasnt a switch for them to reset/see). if it did trip, how could the heater keep going (i know this isnt an HVAC forum, just throwing out ideas)
    well, apparently it didn't trip so it wouldn't have to be reset in that case. I suppose there may not have been one but again, can't say I have seen one without the high temp klixon switch.

    .
    as it was described to me by both the tenant and the FPL tech, the water was gushing, not trickling.

    so, why was water gushing if the PRV was functioning? It wouldn't. It relieves pressure and once the pressure drops below the design pressure, it closes. If water was gushing, that means the valve was stuck and it is not likely they would even have hot water at that time since water would be continually flowing through the tank. It would not be able to provide hot water to the unit.

    what I suspect might have happened was:

    thermostat failed "on"; if present, the high temp limit switch also failed. Water over heated and PRV released pressure. I suspect that was kind of a continual thing until at some point the PRV failed open and allowed the gushing.

    what the tenant likely experienced;

    water was unusually hot and then, after the PRV failed, they had no hot water.

    given this went on for over a month, I don't think the PRV failed until near the discovery of the problem. If you have metered water, I would expect the bill to be high in the month the PRV failed, if it was open long enough to run a lot of water before it was discovered.



    the one thing I think you could have done is to have FPL give you regular updates to the power usage issue and if it continued to be excessive, then you should have mounted an investigation into the reason.

    so, unless you can firmly place some level of liability on the tenant due to a failure to see the obvious (if it was there), the excessive bill was caused by your defective water heater and they should not be liable for that.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    I would say this electric bill falls on the tenant. There is a reasonable expectation that one have basic skills to recognize a problem. Excessively hot water and water pouring out the release valve would fall under common sense IMO. As you noted the lease clearly states tenant is responsible for electric. That does not mean a slight monthly rent adjustment would not be in order for a year.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    i need to find out if they had hot water. i cant imagine them not having hot water for a whole month and not noticing, so something doesnt add up. are you saying that it is possible that the heater had this spiking/cycling issue, and the PRV was cycling to release, until total failure the other day?

    ill need to see what kind of water usage there was over this period of time

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    On the contrary they should have excessively hot water for the entire time.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,991

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    typically, an equipment failure does not confer liability either direction unless it was caused or ignored by one party. unless you did something to it or ignored manufacturer's instructions for maintenance, if any. I don't see how this is your fault or the tenant's fault


    I would advise tenant to file a claim with their renter's insurance if it covers this kind of loss. Personally I would offer to cover 10/19ths of the june bill, as the bill would have been that much less if you had investigated immediately when your tenant complained on june 9th but I don't believe you are legally required to.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
    View Post
    On the contrary they should have excessively hot water for the entire time.

    not once the PRV failed and the continual gushing water proves it failed. Once the PRV failed (open), they would have no hot water since it would not be held in the tank long enough to be heated.

    up until that point the water should have been excessively hot though.



    i need to find out if they had hot water. i cant imagine them not having hot water for a whole month and not noticing, so something doesnt add up. are you saying that it is possible that the heater had this spiking/cycling issue, and the PRV was cycling to release, until total failure the other day?
    the PRV, when operating properly, would remain open only long enough to relieve the pressure to a point below it's setting. It would then close. It would not release enough water to cause a no hot water issue. It would be less than a gallon and then stop until pressure built up again. Then it would open and relieve the pressure and on and on. At some point it appears it failed in an open position and allowed the water to gush out. Once enough water flowed out through the PRV such the water in the tank was cold, it would remain cold water from them on.


    the only other thing I can think of is that the gushing seen was not really a long term flow but they just happened to catch it when the PRV opened to relieve the pressure. If that is the case, then the only thing the tenant might notice is excessively hot water but given they were new tenants, they may have written that off as simply the temp you set the water heater to.

    I still do not see how it is the tenants responsibility to pay due to a defective appliance since the landlord is required to provide the tenant with appliances in good working condition. Once it was not in good working condition, the added costs are on the landlord.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2009
    Posts
    11

    Default Re: Who is Responsible for Utility Bills when There is an Issue with the Equipment

    the PRV itself isnt the issue, im glad it worked, so that the heater didn't blow up from the pressure!

    the heater kept heating water, so yeah they had hot water but it was just heating non-stop. but when they saw the electrical bill spike, they should have had FPL come and check it out, instead it was 10 days between them telling me and them having FPL come out. i still think theres some simple ignorance/negligence on their part - i wasnt made aware of it until a month after the electricity spiked. if the elec bill is $680, i doubt the PRV failed just recently as it had to have been pushing out water for a while, because its was being heated continuously for some time. if it was periodic cycling, i doubt the bill would be that high if the PRV was releasing the water periodically.

    when i handed over the keys, the boiler was in working condition - not like they had issues with it such as no hot water, or water that was too hot. i dont know if they did something to the boiler or not. i cant accept that i have to shoulder the whole bill. i can live with what some have suggested, such as rent reduction for a year, or paying a part of the bill.... i just hope it doesnt come to getting lawyers involved

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Retailers: Remedies When a Store Won't Fix or Accept Return of a Defective Appliance
    By n.o.shesha in forum Consumer Law
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-10-2013, 07:41 AM
  2. Life Estates: Responsibility for Lien Caused by the Life Tenant
    By Kylandowner in forum Real Estate Ownership and Title
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: 07-21-2011, 01:29 PM
  3. Quiet Enjoyment: Noisy Appliance from Upstairs Tenant and Landlord Not Responsive
    By kwest10 in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 04-12-2011, 10:30 PM
  4. Roommates: Roommate is Driving Up the Electrical Bill
    By dpgrizz83 in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-21-2010, 07:01 AM
  5. In Debt with Electrical Bill, Landlords Fault
    By redjoy in forum Landlord-Tenant Law
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 09-14-2008, 10:52 PM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources