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  1. #1
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    Jul 2012
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    Default Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington State

    Discovery:
    http://imgur.com/a/xMDyH#VsfQwgS

    I try to avoid driving around Des Moines unless I really have to, however on this particular Sunday, my daughter wanted ice cream at Auntie Irene's, so off we went. When we got there, the place was already closed, so we decided to go to Southcenter.
    I was already on Marine View Drive, so I decided to go up Kent-Des Moines Rd. There were about two cars ahead of me, and these two cars remained in front of me as we stopped at a red light on S. 227th, and then on 16th Ave S.
    After 16th Ave S., I noticed a police car parked on the driveway of an apartment complex on the right side of the road -- I noticed the police car when I was already very close to it. I was about a two-car space away from the car in front of me, and the car behind me was trailing about a two to three-car space. As I passed the police car, I made sure that my speed was between 30-35, and it was a slight uphill. My daughter was just chatting away at this time. After I passed the police car, he went right behind me, and he turned on his lights a few seconds later.
    The police officer made idle chitchat about my license plate frame, which listed my daughter's school in Tacoma. He said that his niece attended the same school. He then told me that I was speeding, and I disagreed politely. He said that he will show me the speed later. He came over with the radar gun and showed me the clocked speed after he handed me the citation.
    Would any one please help me in deciphering the police officer's notes and help me with my argument? I'm a stay-at-home mom, I can't afford the penalty, and my husband is not aware of the ticket. My court date is 6/24. Thank you so much.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    The notes seem pretty clear. The officer says he used a radar SMD to measure your speed at 46 MPH, and that the measurement was consistent with his visual estimate of your speed. What do you need deciphered?

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    The notes seem pretty clear. The officer says he used a radar SMD to measure your speed at 46 MPH, and that the measurement was consistent with his visual estimate of your speed. What do you need deciphered?
    I do apologize for using the word "decipher" -- I'm requesting for advice and help with preparing my defense on how to look for inconsistencies on the officer's notes.

    The road was going slightly uphill, and the opposite lane was going downhill. There were cars going the opposite direction. The police car was not parallel to my car. He was perpendicular to my location, on the right side of the road that I was on, stationary on the driveway of the apartment complex, and the front of his car was situated as if he was about to make a right turn to merge into the road.

  4. #4
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    Feb 2010
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    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    He used tuning fork (singular) when referring to the tests on the device. That should be enough to raise an eyebrow. Don't know about Des Moines Municipal though.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    Quote Quoting BrendanjKeegan
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    He used tuning fork (singular) when referring to the tests on the device. That should be enough to raise an eyebrow. Don't know about Des Moines Municipal though.
    Thank you for the help, Brendan!

    I've been reading as many of the posts as I can these past few days. My court date is tomorrow, 6/24, at 2:30pm.
    I have compiled the following (anyone, please chime in if I need to omit, change, or add anything):

    "Your Honor, in the affidavit, the officer stated that he used the tuning fork - singular - when referring to the tests on the device. The Kustom Talon uses two tuning forks for its testing according to the Kustom Talon Traffic Safety Radar Operator’s Manual. Furthermore, it is impossible to internally test the unit with the tuning fork. The tuning forks are for external testing only. I move to suppress the speed reading as it is not in line with the manufacturer's recommendations and move to dismiss for lack of evidence."

    "Your Honor, the officer states that he was trained on the use of Radar, but he does not say that he is trained in the specific use of the Kustom Talon device. Further, he does not specify when he was trained nor the amount of his training. Based upon his statement, his training could have been 20 years ago with no further training or class work. Because of the advances of technology, he could not even know how to properly use the Kustom Talon system. I move to suppress the speed reading for lack of foundation and move to dismiss for lack of evidence."

    "Your Honor, I move to suppress the speed reading evidence per IRLJ 6.6(c). There is no evidence contained in the officer's statement that establishes whether the RADAR system passed or failed any or all of the calibration testing. The officer establishes that the unit was calibrated, but does not establish whether the device passed any of the calibration checks. He failed to establish when before and after the shift the radar device was tested -- It could have been weeks before and weeks after. It needs to be within a reasonable amount of time to be considered accurate during the violation. Without a pinpoint of when before and after, there is no way to ascertain that it was working properly during the stop. His statement that he "found it to be working properly" is not sufficient. Therefore, the device cannot be legally authenticated as reliable. The RADAR evidence should be found to be insufficient and the speed reading evidence should be suppressed per the rule."

    "Your Honor, the officer's affidavit suggests that the vehicle "appeared to be traveling over the posted limit of 35 MPH," but does not give his qualifications to estimate speed visually. I move to suppress the speed reading for lack of foundation and move to dismiss for lack of evidence. "

    - - - Updated - - -

    UPDATE: The 2:30pm hearing didn't start until almost 4pm. The defendants were called in alphabetical order. The judge lowered fines for all the mitigated cases, and most used their deferral. There were cases with videos, which I've never seen before in other courts. When my name was called, and after I told the judge that I had preliminary motions, the judge informed me that I would have to come back at a later date because the cases with preliminary motions are handled on the dates when the prosecutor is present. My new court date will be in July.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    Quote Quoting atommyx
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    When my name was called, and after I told the judge that I had preliminary motions, the judge informed me that I would have to come back at a later date because the cases with preliminary motions are handled on the dates when the prosecutor is present. My new court date will be in July.
    Well, I hope you didn't just shoot yourself in the foot. Reading through your arguments, NONE of them qualify as "preliminary". A preliminary motion might be an IRLJ 2.2 (d) motion to dismiss because the NOI was not filed with the court in a timely manner, or an IRLJ 2.3 improper venue motion -- to name a few.

    All of your arguments deal with the affidavit, which is not even introduced into evidence until the case begins -- after all preliminary motions have been ruled on.

    So, instead of being able to make your arguments with no one to argue against you, you will now have to deal with the prosecutor.

    Oh, and IRLJ 6.6 deals with the "certification" of the RADAR -- NOT the daily testing. And the statement, "found it to be working properly" is certainly sufficient, since, if it had not passed ALL of the tests, it would not have been working properly.

    ----------------------------

    If I may, however, I'd like to add a little fuel to your second argument pertaining to the officer's training. In the statement, the officer says: "I am a trained and qualified radar operator". I believe the issue of being trained on a PARTICULAR device is analogous to SEATTLE v. PETERSON, 39 Wn. App. 524, 693 P.2d 757 (1985), in which the court states:

    Quote Quoting Seattle v Peterson
    The issue here is not the reliability of a scientific principle (the Doppler effect), but whether the particular machine employing the principle is so designed and constructed that the results produced by proper operation are reliable.
    As an air traffic controller, I could say that I am a trained and qualified RADAR operator. Does that mean that I know anything about traffic RADAR, or the Kustom Talon in particular? Even the sample "certification" in IRLJ 6.6 (b) states:

    Quote Quoting IRLJ 6.6 (b)
    Based upon my education, training, and experience and my
    knowledge of the SMD's listed above, it is my opinion that each
    of these electronic pieces of equipment is so designed and
    constructed as to accurately employ the Doppler effect in such a
    manner that it will give accurate measurements of the speed of
    motor vehicles when properly calibrated and operated by a trained
    operator
    ....
    So, to paraphrase Peterson: The issue is not whether the officer has general knowledge of traffic RADAR, but whether the officer has been trained in this particular device. There is no evidence to support a finding of any such training.

    Don't know if it will do any good, but it's all I could come up with.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    Quote Quoting jojo
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    Well, I hope you didn't just shoot yourself in the foot. Reading through your arguments, NONE of them qualify as "preliminary". A preliminary motion might be an IRLJ 2.2 (d) motion to dismiss because the NOI was not filed with the court in a timely manner, or an IRLJ 2.3 improper venue motion -- to name a few.
    All of your arguments deal with the affidavit, which is not even introduced into evidence until the case begins -- after all preliminary motions have been ruled on.
    Thanks for pointing this out, jojo --- I had no idea
    Reading through the forum, I mistakenly thought that all motions are preliminary. A lot of posters don't come back to post their narratives.
    I did go back to request for another court date without a prosecutor present, but the clerk wouldn't allow it. She said that it's better to have the prosecutor there because it would be easier to have a ticket amended My court date is in a couple of days --- wish me luck.

  8. #8
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    188

    Default Re: Radar Ticket for Speeding in Des Moines, Washington

    Quote Quoting atommyx
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    Thanks for pointing this out, jojo --- I had no idea
    Reading through the forum, I mistakenly thought that all motions are preliminary. A lot of posters don't come back to post their narratives.
    I did go back to request for another court date without a prosecutor present, but the clerk wouldn't allow it. She said that it's better to have the prosecutor there because it would be easier to have a ticket amended My court date is in a couple of days --- wish me luck.
    Well, the clerk is right -- this does open up another possibility. You can try to talk with the prosecutor BEFORE the hearing starts to see if they might consider a plea to, say, inattentive driving. You'll still pay a fine, but it won't show up on your record, saving your deferral and an insurance increase.

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