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  1. #31
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brawley, CA 92227
    Posts
    288

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Most ordinary people and small news outlets can not afford to "go get a court order."
    Many public records are unlawfully withheld because government agencies know we won't be able to take that next step.
    I called the attorney in the County Counsel's Office that denied my request and told him about the Long Beach case.
    I spoke at the BOS meeting and the head of the CC Office said he would, personally, review the request.
    He asked for a few days.
    Thank you MGSMan for the information.

  2. #32
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Quote Quoting huntsab
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    Most ordinary people and small news outlets can not afford to "go get a court order."
    .
    really? Do you have any idea what it costs to "go get a court order"? I'm guessing not.

  3. #33
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Quote Quoting huntsab
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    Most ordinary people and small news outlets can not afford to "go get a court order."
    That doesn't change the fact that YOU cannot compel them to give up the names if they decline.

    Many public records are unlawfully withheld because government agencies know we won't be able to take that next step.
    That may be your opinion, and it may even be true (though there is no objective proof of such a claim), but, it still doesn't change anything.

    I called the attorney in the County Counsel's Office that denied my request and told him about the Long Beach case.
    I spoke at the BOS meeting and the head of the CC Office said he would, personally, review the request.
    He asked for a few days.
    Which is a perfectly viable avenue to pursue.

    Though, the County Counsel and even the Board of Supervisors cannot compel the elected Sheriff to release any information he does not want to.

  4. #34
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Here is something I just ran across. It appears to be quite complete in describing the rights and requirements under the CAPR.


    http://ag.ca.gov/publications/summar...ecords_act.pdf


    Carl,

    I have not seen anything addressing this so far for California but some states provide for penalties for a willful denial of a release of documents. I believe some states even criminalize the action. If there is anything in California penalizing a willful denial, a determination by the entities huntsab spoke of that the denial is improper could go a long way in seeking to have those with the authority to penalize improper denials to address the issue.

  5. #35
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Brawley, CA 92227
    Posts
    288

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    "Though, the County Counsel and even the Board of Supervisors cannot compel the elected Sheriff to release any information he does not want to."
    That is true.
    In a similar case, a few years ago, the County Counsel agreed the records I requested were public documents and advised the Sheriff's Department to turn them over. The Sheriff's Department said they did not have to follow the advise of the CC.
    As far as getting a court order and the cost, I believe it takes an attorney to write a pleading-an Order of Mandate. $1,000+ I am guessing. A local attorney I tried to talk to turned me down flat. "We have too much going on with that agency." Whatever that means. He's representing a plaintiff in a lawsuit against this agency.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In Long Beach, the POA battled in court for 4 years. I wonder how much that cost.

  6. #36
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Posts
    1,279

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Quote Quoting huntsab
    View Post
    As far as getting a court order and the cost, I believe it takes an attorney to write a pleading-an Order of Mandate. $1,000+ I am guessing. A local attorney I tried to talk to turned me down flat. "We have too much going on with that agency." Whatever that means. He's representing a plaintiff in a lawsuit against this agency.

    - - - Updated - - -

    In Long Beach, the POA battled in court for 4 years. I wonder how much that cost.
    If you read a little further in the Public Records Act you will see that when there is litigation over the disputed release of documents, the loser pays both sides' attorney fees. Perhaps the lawyer you spoke with really declined the case because he felt you had no chance of winning and lacked the resources to pay when that happened.

  7. #37
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Quote Quoting huntsab
    View Post
    In Long Beach, the POA battled in court for 4 years. I wonder how much that cost.
    I shudder at the thought!

    Merely pursuing a POBR violation can cost an officer or association $20,000-$30,000 assuming it is not long and involved. I can't imagine the cost of a 4-year fight through the appellate process to the State Supreme Court - though I understand why they fought it, even if I think the end result was probably inevitable.

  8. #38

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    The answer hasn't changed. This whole thing can be summed up in 5 words: "Go. Get. A. Court. Order."

  9. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
    Location
    California
    Posts
    20,594

    Default Re: Public Records Act Request for Names of Officers Involved in Shooting

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post
    Carl,

    I have not seen anything addressing this so far for California but some states provide for penalties for a willful denial of a release of documents. I believe some states even criminalize the action. If there is anything in California penalizing a willful denial, a determination by the entities huntsab spoke of that the denial is improper could go a long way in seeking to have those with the authority to penalize improper denials to address the issue.
    I think that PROVING that the denial was intentionally unlawful and not based upon a reasonable belief that they had a lawful right to withhold the info would be difficult. This is why a reason for the denial must be given.

    The penalty for intentionally withholding records tends to be that the agency involved has to pay the attorney's fees of the requesting party that prevails. I am unaware of any additional penalties that might apply for a knowing and intentional violation, but, it could be that intentional violations simply are not proven very often if at all. (A search of the relevant GC section fails to find any criminal penalty for an intentional refusal to disclose the info, so this is not a crime even if it might result in a civil award or attorney's fees.)

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