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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Default Fired Right Before the Start of an Approved Vacation

    My question involves labor and employment law for the state of: washington

    I was fired on the last day of a pay period which happened to be just before my previously approved vacation was to start (fired on friday, vacation was to start monday). I had scheduled the vacation a month prior and the boss approved it.

    Below is a quote from the Washington state labor and industries site:
    "Paid vacation, holiday, and sick leave and severance pay are considered voluntary benefits that a business may choose to offer workers. Washington State law does not require a business to provide these benefits. Even though there is no state law requiring a business to pay these benefits upon termination, if the business promises workers these benefits and does not follow through, workers can contact an attorney or file in small claims court for their unpaid benefits."

    per rcw 49.48.010 all wages due must be paid at the end of the next scheduled pay period. In addition to the vacation time there are other monthly expenses (phone allowance, travel reimbursement) that I have also not received payment for. Another item mentioned in that rcw is that payment may not be withheld or deductions other that allowed by federal or state law. I have not yet received any payment of either the reimbursements or approved vacation pay (over a month has passed).

    I am trying to find any further support for my case for receiving the vacation pay. I cant find any clearly defined rcw code that talks about it but since it was referenced on the L&I website there must be precedence or laws on the record. Any assistance is appreciated.


    Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    There is a difference between promising paid vacation, and promising that unused vacation will be paid at termination. Do you have anything in writing from your employer that promised to pay out unused vacation at termination?

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    3

    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    Quote Quoting cbg
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    There is a difference between promising paid vacation, and promising that unused vacation will be paid at termination. Do you have anything in writing from your employer that promised to pay out unused vacation at termination?

    I understand that but i'm not trying to get paid for my "unused" vacation. I'm trying to get my vacation that I did in effect use. My employer agreed to pay that time by approving that vacation request, so that voluntary benefit becomes part of my wages once they promised/approved it, IMHO. I welcome any more opinions or documentation.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    You didn't use it. You had it scheduled, but you were fired before you used it.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
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    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    Quote Quoting flyingron
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    You didn't use it. You had it scheduled, but you were fired before you used it.

    I feel that is up to debate. If I were to look at my vacation balance it would have shown that time as "used", the employer essentially has "agreed" that that vacation is no longer in the pool of unused vacation. Back to my main question when does a "voluntary benefit" become a "promised benefit" aka "wages". I don't really need people just saying "you lose, get over it", i would like some intelligent responses with something other than hot air to backup their opinion. Thank you.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
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    8,006

    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    With that attitude, you aren't going to get much help. FYI: cbg has been an HR professional for a long time, so she knows what she's talking about.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
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    OH10
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    17,019

    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    It is no longer in the pool because you are no longer an employee and it is not due.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    There are states, mine is among them, which specifically state in their laws that earned vacation time is considered wages and that the time, once earned, either cannot be lost at all or cannot be lost except under very rigidly described circumstances.

    Your state does not have that provision. By your own description, your employer does not have a provision guaranteeing the payout of vacation at termination.

    Barring a bona fide, legally enforceable contract which expressly and in so many words says otherwise, any private employer, in any of the 50 states, has the right to rescind an approval of vacation time prior to its being taken.

    The FLSA expressly and in so many words says that you are not owed any wages, of any kind past the last date you actually worked. Your state has no provision saying otherwise. Your state does not consider earned vacation to be wages. We know that it does not, because it does not include earned but unused vacation time in its definition of wages. And yes, I have read that statutory definition. Have you? Since even wages do not need to be paid beyond the last day of employment, you can be sure that fringe benefits, which are not considered wages and are not guaranteed paid at termination, do not need to be.

    Your "opinion" does not match up with the statutory definitions. I am quite prepared to provide statutory backup for my position. How about you? Got anything more than self-serving opinion?

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    My state is WA and it's exactly as read, it's what's in the policy. My current companies policy is only pay out up to 1 week of accrued PTO. Previous companies were pay out in full, other were no payment if quit or termed for cause.

    Do you have a handbook to review?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: Washington State Laws About Vacation Benefits and What is Considered "Wages"

    belacs1;802688]I feel that is up to debate.
    there is nothing to debate. You were terminanted before you used your vacation time.


    If I were to look at my vacation balance it would have shown that time as "used", the employer essentially has "agreed" that that vacation is no longer in the pool of unused vacation
    . essentially? Agreed? there is no essentially and the only thing agreed to is that you are no longer an employee as of the end of the day Friday.

    Back to my main question when does a "voluntary benefit" become a "promised benefit" aka "wages".
    not until after it becomes owed. If you were employed for the week in question, they would owe it since at that point, they had promised to pay you for the time off. Now that you are not employed, you did not exercise your rights to vacation time while employed so there is no promise of payment for time taken off as vacation time because, well, you are not entitled to any time off with pay since you no longer work there..

    I don't really need people just saying "you lose, get over it",
    fine. You win. Go forth and sue them.

    You'll lose but go ahead. It's your time, not mine.



    i would like some intelligent responses with something other than hot air to backup their opinion. Thank you.[
    Has anybody ever explained to you how what we know in science today would have appeared as magic before the scientific realization of what was happening i.e. our acts of science would appear to be magic tricks to those uneducated souls.? This is the same thing only with law. You have to have the intelligence to understand what you are being told otherwise it looks like nothing more than hot air.

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