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    Default Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    My question involves landlord-tenant law in the State of: California

    I'll try to be brief but I'll probably fail.

    Rented a warehouse/office combo for media production. Music recording and rehearsal as well as video production.

    Turns out our neighbors are a traditional office that does regular office work during the day with phone calls etc. They complain about our noise levels because they need to make phone calls. Our units used to be one but were divided into two, to give you an idea of how close our spaces are together. We share a lot of thin walls.

    So what happens is if we play music (or even talk loud and laugh) we get noise complaints and letters/emails from our property manager saying our noise levels are not appropriate. The property manager hasn't ever showed up on the property when there was a complaint so I'm assuming "appropriate" is whatever our neighbors decide is appropriate for them. He has authorized them and told us that the police will be called if we do not comply.

    So basically we have been having to wait until after 5PM to start working on things. Not very cost efficient.

    Now our lease clearly states the use is for music/media production. Even funnier the complex is zoned Light Industrial but our neighbors are a commercial office. It's quite funny to see both my business and another business two doors down (on the other side of the commercial office) both hindered due to noise complaints from a commercial office in the middle that doesn't fit the zoning.

    So the question: Is there anything we can do? Should the landlord be able to tell us we can use the space for one thing and then once we get in tell us we can't until a certain time or the police will be called? Can we be forced to limit our use, which has been cleared by the city, in order to accommodate another business who is, as a matter of fact, not cleared by the city?

    I'll be honest, I'd love to just bounce and demand that we be reimbursed for all the time we were there since we couldn't actually use the space as agreed.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    We're not in a position to review your lease, listen to the noise levels, or determine if you're in violation of your lease. You need to have a discussion with your landlord.

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    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    You could of course change your shift to afternoon/evening.

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    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    We're not in a position to review your lease, listen to the noise levels, or determine if you're in violation of your lease. You need to have a discussion with your landlord.
    Well I'm sure the lease references something about not disturbing neighbors. But it gets tricky because our approved use is something that happens to disturb our neighbors. Our neighbors want office quiet levels of noise during the day which simply isn't possible for what we do. It's why we specifically sought out an industrial complex. And our neighbors being a commercial entity in the same industrial complex is what makes it tricky.

    Our "landlord" died last year. The property is under his trust and his trust has hired a property managing company. The same company that happens to have been the one to suggest and approve us for this location. The agents who recommended and brokered this deal with us just throw their hands up while the property management company keeps telling us to lower the noise to accommodate the neighbors or the matter will be referred to the police. I don't know what else we could have done from the outset besides say what our use was going to be. It appears we were told our use was OK and got a deal in place and then got bait and switched to find out that our use actually WASN'T OK but too bad, guys, you signed a lease.

    There's got to be something wrong with that. But then again it's commercial so I wouldn't be surprised if that's OK in California. The Property Management company acting as the landlord is obviously going to prefer we make no noise because it's easier and they still get their money.




    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
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    You could of course change your shift to afternoon/evening.
    This is going to sound super suspect but that's actually what we have done for the last year. We have been pushing things back until after 5PM just to try to keep the peace and in actuality it was the worst thing we could have done.

    Now, if the neighbors hear any kind of noise before 5PM they bang on the walls or walk over and start questioning patrons/customers. In the entire year we have only lost two customers because of this but the real downside is straight being unable to do much until 5PM. Our rent rate certainly considers us able to do business at all times.

    I'm not trying to trick anyone or pull some swerve. I am just wondering if there is some general law that prevents a landlord from, say, renting a unit to someone to open a bar and then, once the deal is signed and the zoning clearance obtained from the city, turning around and saying "you can't have a bar here. There's a daycare next door. Sorry. But pay me still."

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    Quote Quoting somekindofaction
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    Well I'm sure the lease references something about not disturbing neighbors. But it gets tricky because our approved use is something that happens to disturb our neighbors. Our neighbors want office quiet levels of noise during the day which simply isn't possible for what we do. It's why we specifically sought out an industrial complex. And our neighbors being a commercial entity in the same industrial complex is what makes it tricky.

    Our "landlord" died last year. The property is under his trust and his trust has hired a property managing company. The same company that happens to have been the one to suggest and approve us for this location. The agents who recommended and brokered this deal with us just throw their hands up while the property management company keeps telling us to lower the noise to accommodate the neighbors or the matter will be referred to the police. I don't know what else we could have done from the outset besides say what our use was going to be. It appears we were told our use was OK and got a deal in place and then got bait and switched to find out that our use actually WASN'T OK but too bad, guys, you signed a lease.

    There's got to be something wrong with that. But then again it's commercial so I wouldn't be surprised if that's OK in California. The Property Management company acting as the landlord is obviously going to prefer we make no noise because it's easier and they still get their money.






    This is going to sound super suspect but that's actually what we have done for the last year. We have been pushing things back until after 5PM just to try to keep the peace and in actuality it was the worst thing we could have done.

    Now, if the neighbors hear any kind of noise before 5PM they bang on the walls or walk over and start questioning patrons/customers. In the entire year we have only lost two customers because of this but the real downside is straight being unable to do much until 5PM. Our rent rate certainly considers us able to do business at all times.

    I'm not trying to trick anyone or pull some swerve. I am just wondering if there is some general law that prevents a landlord from, say, renting a unit to someone to open a bar and then, once the deal is signed and the zoning clearance obtained from the city, turning around and saying "you can't have a bar here. There's a daycare next door. Sorry. But pay me still."
    Your solution is to soundproof the shared wall.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    When you signed the lease as a business that was a music/media operation, did you inform the landlord that this business was also a performance and mixing studio? I suspect not. Or, he had no idea just how loud it was going to be.

    In addition to problems with the landlord, the neighboring tenants can call the police and request a private person's arrest for anyone causing a disturbance of the peace. A judge could then decide what to do.

    Now, speaking as someone who spent much of his youth in the music business, spent time in recording studios and had friends that were in the business with their own studios, let me say that you cannot just march into a light industrial complex and start cranking up the amps and open it up for a jam. There are a number of problems with this, not only from a sound production side, but from the legal side (as you are discovering). You should invest in proper soundproofing and baffling to avid disturbing your neighbors and to benefit the quality of whatever it is you intend to produce in the studio. Even if your neighbor was an auto repair shop, they might object to loud music and noise that disturbs their customers or staff. Light industrial zoning doesn't mean that it has to permit unreasonable noise.

    Now, you can always dig in your heels, force the neighbors to have you arrested and then let a judge decide ... but, you might also find yourself in violation of the lease and forced out. You may want to decide what your most cost effective angle might be.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    I appreciate these answers because they don't pander and they really run me through the ringer. It means you guys aren't pandering which makes the advice more valuable.


    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    When you signed the lease as a business that was a music/media operation, did you inform the landlord that this business was also a performance and mixing studio? I suspect not. Or, he had no idea just how loud it was going to be.
    That's exactly what we informed him first and foremost.

    Before I started renting spaces the entire process of production could be done inside my house. The facilities were specifically for playing music. And this facility is our second facility. So we had previous usages to directly reference and demonstrate when we made a pitch for this current location.

    The entire stated purpose for having a facility was specifically to have a non-residential, non-commercially zoned location that we could use to play music out loud. The reason we left the first facility was because we outgrew it.

    I understand that our noise could be a disturbance but so can the exhaust from an auto-repair shop or the noise from children at a day care. Isn't one way to address those things to seek a location that accommodates them? Maybe it's the case and that sucks but it seems pretty messed up if I could tell someone that they could open up a day care and play ground in and on a facility and then once they get set up tell them that noise isn't OK even if they told me before. I can't stress enough that we stressed the noise factor and we specifically poo-pooed locations where it would be an issue.

    In addition to problems with the landlord, the neighboring tenants can call the police and request a private person's arrest for anyone causing a disturbance of the peace. A judge could then decide what to do.
    How could I protect myself the way, say, a bar or an amusement park or stadium does? Bars and nightclubs get loud next to businesses. Can someone move in next door and start calling the cops? There has to be some way for a person to not constantly have to alter their business to what someone around them decides is or isn't OK. And it sure sucks that

    Now, speaking as someone who spent much of his youth in the music business, spent time in recording studios and had friends that were in the business with their own studios, let me say that you cannot just march into a light industrial complex and start cranking up the amps and open it up for a jam. There are a number of problems with this, not only from a sound production side, but from the legal side (as you are discovering). You should invest in proper soundproofing and baffling to avid disturbing your neighbors and to benefit the quality of whatever it is you intend to produce in the studio.[/QUOTE]


    We do have areas that are checked for sound but we also have areas that are used for straight rehearsal. We do have some bands that get unreasonably loud. They normally practice in the late evening when no one's around but them turning it down is reasonable. But we can't even get a drum set going or a vocalist running lines or have a TV against a wall without getting a complaint. Our neighbors expect to not hear anything from us. Not even talking. They want pure quiet so they can make phone calls.

    I know that even in residential areas there are expected noise levels for during the day. Yet here I am in a Light Industrial area and the sound restrictions seem to be even TIGHTER.


    Even if your neighbor was an auto repair shop, they might object to loud music and noise that disturbs their customers or staff. Light industrial zoning doesn't mean that it has to permit unreasonable noise.
    I think that's fair. Our issue is that ANY noise is deemed "unreasonable" with the only solution offered by, well, this one neighbor is NO noise being considered reasonable. My business and the one on the other side of them are both sort of tied down by their office needs despite both of us having our uses clearly stated, projected and approved before moving in.

    How can we determine what is "reasonable?"

    Now, you can always dig in your heels, force the neighbors to have you arrested and then let a judge decide ... but, you might also find yourself in violation of the lease and forced out. You may want to decide what your most cost effective angle might be.
    The main issue is having to soundproof 75% of the building as it is dreadfully NOT cost effective. And unfortunately our unit used to be one with our neighbors before the landlord divided it so we share 10 or so walls. Also there are drop down ceilings so the entire top area is connected.

    I'm not looking for a license to be as loud as possible whenever I want. Even though that's what we were looking for and made clear when we brokered the deal (we were actually all rehearsal studio before adding the production element). What I am trying to not have is the needs of one unit completely trump those of ours in all regards. If they need perfect quiet isn't it just as fair that they soundproof their offices? Or make purchases and investments to guarantee that quiet?

    I'm not really good with the legal terminologies and stuff but there has to be some sort of use allowances for our business in an industrial location. I don't think I could park my business in an industrial complex full of auto-repair shops and tell them I need perfect quiet for recording purposes and also that the exhaust needs to stop could I? Could I make them sound proof their walls?

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    It may be that the other business could have a claim against the landlord if they were given certain promises in order to conduct their business. Or, you might have a claim against him for not being permitted to utilize your business as you see fit.

    However, the details will be contained within the lease agreement so what you might have told the landlord may not be all that relevant if there are sound restrictions in the lease or the true nature of your business is not contained there.

    As for a determination of "reasonable" with regards to a noise complaint, only a court can make that determination. The neighboring business may never call the police and they may never demand a private person's arrest, but, if they do then you might get a judge to hear the case a few weeks or months down the road. In the meantime, you might have to keep quiet.

    If the landlord knew the true nature of your business and allowed it next to an office, then he may have screwed up and both business may have a cause of action against him ... or, cause to get out of the lease - an option you might want to consider.

    Sorry, but there is no easy answer here.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Getting Noise Complaints from an Office in an Industrially Zoned Complex

    Quote Quoting cdwjava
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    It may be that the other business could have a claim against the landlord if they were given certain promises in order to conduct their business. Or, you might have a claim against him for not being permitted to utilize your business as you see fit.

    However, the details will be contained within the lease agreement so what you might have told the landlord may not be all that relevant if there are sound restrictions in the lease or the true nature of your business is not contained there.

    As for a determination of "reasonable" with regards to a noise complaint, only a court can make that determination. The neighboring business may never call the police and they may never demand a private person's arrest, but, if they do then you might get a judge to hear the case a few weeks or months down the road. In the meantime, you might have to keep quiet.

    If the landlord knew the true nature of your business and allowed it next to an office, then he may have screwed up and both business may have a cause of action against him ... or, cause to get out of the lease - an option you might want to consider.

    Sorry, but there is no easy answer here.

    That's my take on it... The property management company mixed up some wires and caused the problems by having two incompatible tenants next to each other. I feel bad for our neighbors because on the other side of them is ANOTHER business that generates a bunch of noise and they are constantly pounding on the other walls to try to keep the other people quiet.

    It's the result of a commercial office being in an industrially zoned complex. I actually asked the property management company what the noise policy is and they said there isn't one per se but they'd appreciate it if we would keep quiet during normal business hours. Our lease has no restrictions on noise but it does reference not impeding other tenants. But if we have an agreed to use I would hope that it takes precedence. If I am given authorization to move my smog shop in I would hope I couldn't suddenly find myself restricted from doing business because there was a food shop opening next door. I would hope the landlord is responsible and I don't end up arrested and in court for impeding the business next door or being too loud for their restaurant patrons.

    We are planning on moving but it sounds like our neighbors really should be doing the same. Until then we are trying to figure out what the law says is appropriate. Where does a business go to get permission to make noise? I thought that's what zoning clearances sort of did...

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