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  1. #1

    Question Can a Parent Include Grandparents Visitation in a Divorce Decree

    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Maine.... My son and daughter in law have always lived in my home grandmother and grandfather my granddaughter has lived her since she was born for 6 years .This august daughter in law moved out and a divorce is now being started. I grandmother have taken care of my granddaughter while mother works and will do so during the summer months when school is out.plus we watched her and raised her her more then either parent. which is fine. We both have a loving relationship with our grandaughter and she does with us..Her dad lives with us and will continue to. he is bipolar and has anxiety issues sees his doc monthly and takes his med so no problems...We have her every week end and one night after school ....It will be joint custody with her having physical custody..She lives nearby same town... In the visitation decree she is willing to have a clause or what ever it would be called that we grandparents have visitation rights. As her dad does also.We all live in the same house. So wondering if she can include our rights to have her visit as her dad lives here. We don't want it worded to sound like hes not fit due to his bipolar...Its a do it your self divorce and they are writing up their own parenting plan...How would this be worded? Any help would be much appreciated or any insight if she can include us in visitation? They are low income so can not afford a lawyer or even a mediator to help.Don't really need one..One more thing we are concerned about..her parents are divorced and they move often ..Now her dad is in Virginia for the past 2 years and now her mom is moving there also but not near the dad to be near her sister. daughter in law mentions I might want to move to Virginia...Because my parents are there..can she move out of state? can we have it in the divorce that she can not move grandaughter to Virginia they would not offer much help her parents..Plus they move often?Sorry for the long post just worried to death as we love this little girl as she does us..Her moving to Virginia also would not give her a better job as she only has a GED so jobs anyplace are limited...

  2. #2

    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    A divorce and custody proceeding is between the parties of the divorce. Dad can certainly allow you to visit on his time, but if you want rights of your own, you'll need to petition the court for grandparent rights; they're not going to be "attached" to dad's decree. Given the child's age and extensive contact the child has had with the G's, a decent attorney should be able to successfully argue for GP visitation (unless there are issues that haven't been disclosed). In ME this is NOT an open and shut thing, and if you attempt to bring a petition without the assistance of an attorney and mom challenges the petition, the outcome may not only be undesireable but could see mom taking the child out of your lives altogether. This is one of those cases where you shouldn't even attempt to bring a petition without a decent hired gun to get you a "win"...because if you don't win, the consequences could be dire and last until the child becomes an adult. You can find the statute that addresses grandparent visitation and the petition process here:

    http://www.mainelegislature.org/legi...Ach59sec0.html

    daughter in law mentions I might want to move to Virginia...Because my parents are there..can she move out of state?
    She can unless there's a court order to the contrary. Even with such an order in place, mom may STILL be able to petition the court and get such a move approved, especially if her job prospects there are minimal there and she's got family in VA. That actually works in mom's favor, not against her. The problem is that there is no "we" in this situation. There is DAD. HE can attempt to get moving language added to HIS visitation decree. Any rights for visitation that YOU want need to be sought by you, in a court action of your own. If you're asking if there's a way to perminantly forbid mom from ever moving with the child; the answer is "no". Dad might get the court might block her in the short term, but it won't last forever. That's just a reality that must be faced when relationships come to an end and people move on. Fortunately, things like vehicles, airplanes, telephones, Skype, etc can still allow visitation to occur, regardless of where the child may ultimately end up living.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Quote Quoting gardenandcats
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    My question involves a child custody case from the State of: Maine.... My son and daughter in law have always lived in my home grandmother and grandfather my granddaughter has lived her since she was born for 6 years .This august daughter in law moved out and a divorce is now being started. I grandmother have taken care of my granddaughter while mother works and will do so during the summer months when school is out.plus we watched her and raised her her more then either parent. which is fine. We both have a loving relationship with our grandaughter and she does with us..Her dad lives with us and will continue to. he is bipolar and has anxiety issues sees his doc monthly and takes his med so no problems...We have her every week end and one night after school ....It will be joint custody with her having physical custody..She lives nearby same town... In the visitation decree she is willing to have a clause or what ever it would be called that we grandparents have visitation rights. As her dad does also.We all live in the same house. So wondering if she can include our rights to have her visit as her dad lives here. We don't want it worded to sound like hes not fit due to his bipolar...Its a do it your self divorce and they are writing up their own parenting plan...How would this be worded? Any help would be much appreciated or any insight if she can include us in visitation? They are low income so can not afford a lawyer or even a mediator to help.Don't really need one..One more thing we are concerned about..her parents are divorced and they move often ..Now her dad is in Virginia for the past 2 years and now her mom is moving there also but not near the dad to be near her sister. daughter in law mentions I might want to move to Virginia...Because my parents are there..can she move out of state? can we have it in the divorce that she can not move grandaughter to Virginia they would not offer much help her parents..Plus they move often?Sorry for the long post just worried to death as we love this little girl as she does us..Her moving to Virginia also would not give her a better job as she only has a GED so jobs anyplace are limited...

    I'm going to touch a little more on the grandparent visitation issue.

    For the most part, grandparents who have great relationships with their children tend not to need court ordered visitation. There are exceptions, of course, but many parents (myself included - and I have grandkids!) as well as professionals believe that suing your children for GPV is probably one of the most hostile acts you can do.

    You are expected to visit with your grandchild while she is with her father. If you do end up suing, you're not going to get anywhere near the same access as you have now. It would generally be more along the lines of one overnight per month.

    You have absolutely no say in where she moves. The court also cannot uphold any order that prohibits relocation in the future; situations change, and this is why custody can (and often must) be modified to account for changes.

    The bottom line is that the divorce doesn't legally involve anyone other than both parents and the child.

  4. #4

    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Daughter in law does want us to have visitation.You missed the point she wants to include that in the divorce visitation order. We are not suing for rights to have her. As her mom wants us too.My queastion was can she have this added that she wants us to have her????As she wants to have this in the visitation order can she ???We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help to us if we ever did need to sue..Which I doubt would ever happen. Also I know we as grandparents have no say as to relocation. But her dad does?????

    As to family in Virginia her dad has moved 6 times in the past 8 years so has her mom. They have had hardley any contact with grandaughter..her mom has issues she is now dating a man 16 years older then herself. he has 3 convicted felonies one involving weapons (guns)...2 maybe 3 domestic assault charges. Just got out of jail for the last one as he ran his car into his girlfriends car with her child in the car....Broke her jaw the last time. one home invasion people looking for drugs. he has been arrested and found guilty on many drug charges. Kids with 4 different mothers. On probation now and can not even have his own children yet hes over around out grandaughter!!!!!She was fired in Nov due to 6 clients stating she came to work on drugs wanted to buy drugs from them or offered to sell them drugs. She worked taking people with mental health issues to appointments shopping ect. This is on file with her previous employer!

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    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Quote Quoting gardenandcats
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    Daughter in law does want us to have visitation.You missed the point she wants to include that in the divorce visitation order. We are not suing for rights to have her. As her mom wants us too.My queastion was can she have this added that she wants us to have her????As she wanta to have this in the visitation order can she ???We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help us if we ever did need to sue..Which i doubt would ever happen. Also I know we as grandparents have no say as to relocation. But her dad does?????


    I didn't miss anything.

    Dad can object to a relocation, but generally the courts have two options. They can either allow Mom to relocate and give custody to Dad if Mom insists on moving, or they can allow the relocation of the child.

    Going back to the decree. The problem here is that such a clause isn't necessary. Your son still lives with you, yes? Then there's absolutely no reason for any clause relating to grandparents. You see your granddaughter on his time.

    So technically yes, a clause can be added if the Judge doesn't pay too much attention to the petition. But that's not the real question - the real question is, "is such a clause enforceable"? The answer is basically "No". Now it's possible for you to try to enforce it, but the court is going to find it terrifically difficult (if it's possible at all) to rule in your favor over Mom's objections, and for several reasons.

    And I'll be honest - this bit raises about 50 red flags:

    We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help us if we ever did need to sue
    It does indicate what is perhaps the motivation here.

  6. #6

    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Motivation is for the safety and well being of this little girl bottom line...I do not want custody I want to be able to be here for her ..Bottom line we love her and she loves us as she does both parents...So this would appear to a judge as motivation to try and take a little girl away from her mother NO thats not it...Plus we and her dad are having to pay for most of her rent as she lost her job and hadn't been looking until TANF just told her work 20 hours a week or volunteer work 20 hours a week to continue getting TANF..She has health problems so she can't do work that requires standing for a 8 hour shift. Or doing much lifting.....So yes I understand we don't need a clause saying we can have visitation as we do because her dad lives with us and we have her here ok got that ty...But as to leaving State that is another matter and it would not be in the childs best interest....Moms motivation is and i quote " If I move to Virginia dad will help take care of us" Her dad moves often so hes in Virginia now but next year he maybe in California who knows .....Either way Divorce Sucks at best....For all involved!

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    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Quote Quoting gardenandcats
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    Motivation is for the safety and well being of this little girl bottom line...I do not want custody I want to be able to be here for her ..Bottom line we love her and she loves us as she does both parents...So this would appear to a judge as motivation to try and take a little girl away from her mother NO thats not it...Plus we and her dad are having to pay for most of her rent as she lost her job and hadn't been looking until TANF just told her work 20 hours a week or volunteer work 20 hours a week to continue getting TANF..She has health problems so she can't do work that requires standing for a 8 hour shift. Or doing much lifting.....So yes I understand we don't need a clause saying we can have visitation as we do because her dad lives with us and we have her here ok got that ty...But as to leaving State that is another matter and it would not be in the childs best interest....Moms motivation is and i quote " If I move to Virginia dad will help take care of us" Her dad moves often so hes in Virginia now but next year he maybe in California who knows .....Either way Divorce Sucks at best....For all involved!
    Grandma you really do not need visitation to be court ordered for you...so its good that you have understood that. However, the issue of mom moving the child to VA is between mom, dad and the judge. You, yourself have zero power to do anything about that.

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    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Quote Quoting gardenandcats
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    Daughter in law does want us to have visitation.You missed the point she wants to include that in the divorce visitation order. We are not suing for rights to have her. As her mom wants us too.My queastion was can she have this added that she wants us to have her????As she wants to have this in the visitation order can she ???We just felt it would show that if in the future for any reason (highly unlikely) she changes her mind this might help to us if we ever did need to sue..Which I doubt would ever happen. Also I know we as grandparents have no say as to relocation. But her dad does?????

    As to family in Virginia her dad has moved 6 times in the past 8 years so has her mom. They have had hardley any contact with grandaughter..her mom has issues she is now dating a man 16 years older then herself. he has 3 convicted felonies one involving weapons (guns)...2 maybe 3 domestic assault charges. Just got out of jail for the last one as he ran his car into his girlfriends car with her child in the car....Broke her jaw the last time. one home invasion people looking for drugs. he has been arrested and found guilty on many drug charges. Kids with 4 different mothers. On probation now and can not even have his own children yet hes over around out grandaughter!!!!!She was fired in Nov due to 6 clients stating she came to work on drugs wanted to buy drugs from them or offered to sell them drugs. She worked taking people with mental health issues to appointments shopping ect. This is on file with her previous employer!

    Tell me, you're absolutely okay with all of this as long as you get visitation...right?

    Is that correct?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting gardenandcats
    View Post
    Motivation is for the safety and well being of this little girl bottom line...I do not want custody I want to be able to be here for her ..Bottom line we love her and she loves us as she does both parents...So this would appear to a judge as motivation to try and take a little girl away from her mother NO thats not it...Plus we and her dad are having to pay for most of her rent as she lost her job and hadn't been looking until TANF just told her work 20 hours a week or volunteer work 20 hours a week to continue getting TANF..She has health problems so she can't do work that requires standing for a 8 hour shift. Or doing much lifting.....So yes I understand we don't need a clause saying we can have visitation as we do because her dad lives with us and we have her here ok got that ty...But as to leaving State that is another matter and it would not be in the childs best interest....Moms motivation is and i quote " If I move to Virginia dad will help take care of us" Her dad moves often so hes in Virginia now but next year he maybe in California who knows .....Either way Divorce Sucks at best....For all involved!
    Please don't do that. You made it very clear that you're willing to use such a clause against Mom if she changes her mind. This isn't about the child's best interest - if it was, I don't think you'd be asking about visitation. I think you'd be asking how best to encourage Dad to be more effective.

    But that's just me.

    *shrug*

  9. #9

    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    What do you mean Encourage dad to be more effective? He has Bi Polar with paranoid tendency,anxiety, Does not leave the house often as he has had a Social Phobia...So hes not really able to advocate on his behalf. I wish...And No we aren't really ok with this boy friend. we are scared to death but are hands are tied...So by having her with us half the week as she has been since mom left we are able to make sure shes ok.....As much as we possibly can....What do you feel is in the best interest of the child? Dad is what he is and trys the best he can with his mental issues to be a good dad....But him going into a court room with a judge ...Its going to hard for him and he wants as little conflict as possible....He doesn't want his daughter to out of state. And I am trying to help him. I know its not about grandparents..Its about whats best for a little girl..Shes 6 and feels safe here shrugs

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    Default Re: Daughter in Law Wants to Include Grandparents Visitation in Divorce Decree

    Quote Quoting gardenandcats
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    What do you mean Encourage dad to be more effective? He has Bi Polar with paranoid tendency,anxiety, Does not leave the house often as he has had a Social Phobia...So hes not really able to advocate on his behalf. I wish...And No we aren't really ok with this boy friend. we are scared to death but are hands are tied...So by having her with us half the week as she has been since mom left we are able to make sure shes ok.....As much as we possibly can....What do you feel is in the best interest of the child? Dad is what he is and trys the best he can with his mental issues to be a good dad....But him going into a court room with a judge ...Its going to hard for him and he wants as little conflict as possible....He doesn't want his daughter to out of state. And I am trying to help him. I know its not about grandparents..Its about whats best for a little girl..Shes 6 and feels safe here shrugs

    Best interest would be little 'un having as much access to both her parents as possible. But this is where it gets somewhat murky because one of the parents isn't quite where he needs to be. Dad can't advocate for himself, and to prevent Mom from relocating out of state he's going to basically have to prove that he can be the effective primary parent. Otherwise he's not leaving the court much option.

    Is he doing anything for his social anxiety (and oh believe me, I know that one tooooo well)? Can he get together with a local Dads group or something? Because the court can't justify giving him custody on the condition that you're around to pick up the slack :/

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