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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    15

    Default Negligent Driving, Second Degree, for Driving in Emergency Lanes

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Washington

    I screwed up.

    In 20 years of driving I never had a ticket. Now two in 4 month both on my scooter/motorbike:

    1- speeding ticket (70 mph in 55 mph zone) in November 2013 and got deferred (traffic school on line)

    2-Yesterday a trooper issued me with a $ 550 fine for negligent driving in the 2nd degree.

    My issue is do I have any hope that if we go to discovery he has no actual evidence of my infraction?


    When he stopped me I was driving in a normal lane, but claimed he saw me driving in the emergency lanes etc....

    Anyhow what do you suggest I do?

    How much will my insurance increase if as I said I never in 20 years had any ticket whatsoever?

    Should I ask for mitigation.

    Long story short, I had a panic attack, it was raining on I-5 and had zero visitbility and was not really really in an emergency lane, rather on the side of the interstate on one of the bridges across the lake going into downtown...

    Thanks everybody.

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    First, read Barry’s Procedural Guide if you haven’t already. I would request a contested hearing, then file for discovery and link redacted images to this thread. That way you can decide what to do later. Mitigation is still available at a contested hearing but it’s also possible the prosecutor could offer to amend the charge to a lesser offense.

    According to Barry in a previous post, “This is not only a huge fine, but insurance companies REALLY don't like a neg-2 on your record.” For that reason you should try to contest or at least get the charge amended. Of course a win is better to avoid a deferred finding on your previous ticket.

    Perhaps others could comment as to whether driving on the shoulder is enough to establish negligence. Maybe it’s possible to get your charge reduced to RCW 46.61.670 (Driving with wheels off roadway). Also, were you pulling off due to a panic attack and/or visibility as opposed to passing on the shoulder?

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    Long story short, I had a panic attack, it was raining on I-5 and had zero visitbility and was not really really in an emergency lane, rather on the side of the interstate on one of the bridges across the lake going into downtown...
    Probably it doesn’t matter, but you must be referring to I-90, not I-5.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    Tacoma, WA
    Posts
    1,534

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    Long story short, I had a panic attack, it was raining on I-5 and had zero visitbility and was not really really in an emergency lane, rather on the side of the interstate on one of the bridges across the lake going into downtown...
    Well, for starters, I certainly hope this statement is an exaggeration and I would suggest that you should not use such a statement in your defense. If you were truly having a “panic attack,” then, by definition, you were temporarily cognitively impaired and should have immediately pulled to the side of the road an come to a complete stop until you were again in complete control of you faculties. Not doing so would be negligent. If there was truly “zero visibility,” then any speed faster than a complete stop would be negligent for you to propel several thousand pounds of metal and glass down a public roadway. It would not be in your best interests to provide verbiage such as this to the court.

    Follow Searcher’s advice above and folks here will be better able to offer pertinent advice.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    334

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    As was stated, 'panic attack' infers you lost control of your rational mind, but I doubt that is what happened. Rather, you where probably in full control of your faculties but lost your vision due to a sudden downpour. To a car, we simply turn on our windshield wipers, but to a motorcycle it is a different story entirely. A judge or prosecutor should understand those conditions. I would think it depends on how long you rode on the shoulder of the road. If it was just to get off the bridge, that would be understandable because coming to a stop on a bridge is suicide.

    How long did you continue to ride on the shoulder of the road in those conditions?

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    Thanks everybody,

    I was on the brigde before downtown on I-5... the one with the humoungous potholes and bad merging. On that bridge the shoulder is really the size of half a car. I got pulled over by the Roanoke exit (sorry for the spelling)

    It got scared... I was not wearing proper gear and got surprised by both rain and road conditions, so around montalke terrace I pulled over to the right lane and slowed down to around 45 mph as I could not see a thing and just felt unsure (Add to that I wear contacts and had to open the visor to see).

    I pissed off several drivers ( my fault I admit it is frustrating to drive behind somebody going so slow in the rain),
    by the time a got to the bridge to merge, a guy with an SUV got really pissed and started tailgating me honking the horn and doing hand gestures,
    at that point the rain, soaked, the fear and bad riding skills on the rain took over and I just went on the shoulder at about 25 mph and stayed there until pavement and shoulder on the bridge were even.

    Just before the end of the bridge by the Roanoke exit I merged.

    Trust me it gets slippery on a scooter with tiny wheels.... I admit never again driving on I-5 with the rain and check the weather before leaving.

    Also on that bridge they are working on the pavement and there is a sign that says motorbikes use extreme caution.

    - - - Updated - - -

    More questions:

    1- the court on the ticket is: King County District Court, Seattle Courthouse, 516 3rd Ave. Is anybody familiar with that court? Do you know any lawyer who practices there and might take the case? If so how much would it cost me?

    2-When you say insurance companies do not really like negligent driving 2nd degree, what does that mean? Will I be able to still get coverage? How much will my insurance costs increase? 20%, 30%,100%?

    3-My English is pretty good, but I still have an accent and sometimes people can have a hard time understanding me? On the ticket they ask if I should get an interpreter? Should I? Is that prejudicial?

    4- Finally if I contest it and loose in court, will my fine of $550 increase? Will have to pay extra for contesting?


    Thanks everybody for the help and clarifications.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    334

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    Thanks everybody,

    I was on the brigde before downtown on I-5... the one with the humoungous potholes and bad merging. On that bridge the shoulder is really the size of half a car. I got pulled over by the Roanoke exit (sorry for the spelling)

    It got scared... I was not wearing proper gear and got surprised by both rain and road conditions, so around montalke terrace I pulled over to the right lane and slowed down to around 45 mph as I could not see a thing and just felt unsure (Add to that I wear contacts and had to open the visor to see).

    I pissed off several drivers ( my fault I admit it is frustrating to drive behind somebody going so slow in the rain),
    by the time a got to the bridge to merge, a guy with an SUV got really pissed and started tailgating me honking the horn and doing hand gestures,
    at that point the rain, soaked, the fear and bad riding skills on the rain took over and I just went on the shoulder at about 25 mph and stayed there until pavement and shoulder on the bridge were even.

    Just before the end of the bridge by the Roanoke exit I merged.

    Trust me it gets slippery on a scooter with tiny wheels.... I admit never again driving on I-5 with the rain and check the weather before leaving.

    Also on that bridge they are working on the pavement and there is a sign that says motorbikes use extreme caution.
    As an avid road cyclist it sounds precarious and death defying what you were doing out there. If a judge can ask 'why didn't you pull over and stop" he will. What would your response be?

    As a cyclist I ride in traffic all the time, but when I can't keep up with the flow, I pull to the side. The same should apply to a scooter that is out of its element. IMO you have no defense unless someone held you at gunpoint and forced you to get onto that bridge.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    886

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    I was on the brigde before downtown on I-5... the one with the humoungous potholes and bad merging. On that bridge the shoulder is really the size of half a car. I got pulled over by the Roanoke exit
    Ok, now I get it. You were on the Ship Canal Bridge heading toward Seattle. So in other words you realized that on your scooter at that time/place, a safe speed for conditions was much slower than the flow of traffic. Assuming those facts you would have been negligent NOT to ride on the shoulder (with hazard flashers if you had presence of mind). However as you stated you were somewhat freaked out by the situation. Then based on your description, to me there does not seem to exist a preponderance of evidence that your actions were negligent (except possibly for deciding to cross in that weather, but that’s hindsight). Your next step is to look at the officer’s description in your discovery materials.

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    the court on the ticket is: King County District Court, Seattle Courthouse, 516 3rd Ave. Is anybody familiar with that court? Do you know any lawyer who practices there and might take the case? If so how much would it cost me?
    Forum members can offer better information about the strength of your case after reading the officer’s statement in your discovery, so you might want to do that first.

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    When you say insurance companies do not really like negligent driving 2nd degree, what does that mean? Will I be able to still get coverage? How much will my insurance costs increase? 20%, 30%,100%?
    I don’t know how much this could affect your insurance. Probably the best way to find out would be to ask an insurance agent.

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    My English is pretty good, but I still have an accent and sometimes people can have a hard time understanding me? On the ticket they ask if I should get an interpreter? Should I? Is that prejudicial?
    In this recent post, having an interpreter was a positive experience for the OP and recommended to others as a confidence booster if needed. It’s up to you, but should not be prejudicial.

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    Finally if I contest it and loose in court, will my fine of $550 increase? Will have to pay extra for contesting?
    In Washington your fine will not go up by contesting. IRLJ 3.3 (e) states: “If the court determines that the infraction has been committed, it may assess a monetary penalty against the defendant. The monetary penalty assessed may not exceed the monetary penalty provided for the infraction by law.”

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Posts
    15

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    Hi all I am back, after I mailed the ticket contesting I finally got the court date for June 4th (checked through the WA court web site).

    But I still have not received any information, reply in the mail from the court.

    What should I do?

    I am getting anxious as I would like to submit discovery requests to see what kind of evidence they have against me to prepare for the case.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks as always,

    gg12

  9. #9

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    Quote Quoting gg12
    View Post
    Hi all I am back, after I mailed the ticket contesting I finally got the court date for June 4th (checked through the WA court web site).

    But I still have not received any information, reply in the mail from the court.

    What should I do?

    I am getting anxious as I would like to submit discovery requests to see what kind of evidence they have against me to prepare for the case.

    Any suggestions?

    Thanks as always,

    gg12
    If you're anxious, go to the court, have them print out your docket and you'll find case numbers on that. Follow Barry's procedural guidelines from there and submit discovery requests.

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    152

    Default Re: Negligent Driving Second Degree

    You can also try to contact the prosecutor to see if they will reduce the charges, perhaps to some non-moving violation like cell phone usage. (admittedly that would be hard on a scooter, but who cares?). If the PA has any doubt to the case, or they recognize that your actions were an attempt to be safe, they may be willing to reduce the charges - and still collect the $$$ and conviction. It will be important for you to reduce the charges to non-moving violation, to keep your original deferral deferred.

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