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  1. #1

    Default Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    My question involves civil rights in the State of California:

    If a client falls under the lifetime firearms ban does he have any means to sue the government because he cannot secure his assets or capital due to the fact that his second amendment right is null and void?

    I have a client who received a 5250 over ten years ago. He recently attempted to purchase a firearm legally through a firearms dealer in California and the dealer was told by the DOJ to not sell him the weapon.
    My client feel like his Constitutional contract with the government is simply null and void because the government is failing to provide him with the means for securing his property, land, and livelihood.

    After a citizen receives a 5250 are their 2nd Amendment Rights null and void in addition to their means to secure capital and their assets?

    I find it difficult to believe that a lifetime firearm ban is Constitutional? Is it? and what is the legal reasoning behind this? (could you get a lifetime ban on the 1st amendment?) Do the 5250 laws supersede the 2nd Amendment?

    What court would my client even sue in? I'm not well versed in these manners. I was surprised that the government could create a lifetime ban for someone being able to own / possess a firearm, because after that occurs what does the government say you do as a means to protect your assets capital livelihood etc? What does that say about the validity of the 2nd amendment when the DOJ bans you from owning firearms for you entire life?

    My client is basically asking me to sue the government because he feels that if he can't own a gun then the government isn't giving him the same rights according to the US Constitution that everyone else has. He is asking me to recover all of the taxes he had paid to the government because he says the Constitution does not give him the right to bear arms anymore...

    Is the Constitution null and void because it fails to provide my client with his second amendment rights? What else would you call a lifetime ban on firearms?

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    The others will answer more succinctly, but suffice it to say.... actions have their consequences. And once again, someone somewhere (and it ain't me) is not actually understanding the Constitution.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Can my client even reasonably make the claim in court to his right to bear arms?

    My client is telling me that if he goes into court other laws (particularly the 5250 lifetime ban law) will be used to supersede his 2nd amendment right and his "claim" to even bear arms because it is in direct conflict with a lesser law.

    Help me understand the Const if I'm misunderstanding how that 4 page contractual document works. From what I understand the Constitution is basically a contract between individuals and the government correct?

    My client feels that he no longer has the ability to get treated as a citizen or to claim his 2nd amendment right because there are other laws that expressly deny him that right and can be used to put him in jail if he has a firearm and uses it for the intent purpose of securing his capital land assets etc

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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    The RKBA is not made in the constitution .. we have always had these rights.

    If he's a freeman his RKBA is intact; its the gov't that is oppressing it.

    If he was a danger to anyone, he would be locked up somewhere...a guy can kill with a hammer just as easily as a gun.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    California imposes a five year ban on firearms possession following a Sec. 5150 or 5250 hold. The five year bar for a Sec. 5150 hold can be disputed in court. See Welfare & Institutions Code, Sec. 8103.

    The lifetime ban for a Sec. 5250 hold comes from federal law. 18 USC Sec. 922(d)(4). See 18 USC Sec. 925(c) for a provision relating to relief from that disability.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Totally cribbed from MKIA: http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152893

    And this: http://www.mabpro.com/resource/docs/...bitionForm.pdf

    The problem is that certain events trigger certain consequences. One does not simply get tossed a 5250 for no reason at all; there's generally a darn good reason for it. There's more about that here: http://www.leginfo.ca.gov/cgi-bin/di...le=5250-5259.3

    With regards to the Constitution itself, it may come down to what was actually intended versus how it may (or may not) be (mis)interpreted today. Regardless, there is strong support on both sides of the argument (did they mean all of us regular folk? did they really just mean we can form militias?) and I'm sure we haven't seen the last of the argument in court.

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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    when you say client, you aren't suggesting it is an attorney client relationship, are you?

    From what I understand the Constitution is basically a contract between individuals and the government correct?
    You don't really understand what a contract is, do you?




    My client feels that he no longer has the ability to get treated as a citizen or to claim his 2nd amendment right because there are other laws that expressly deny him that right and can be used to put him in jail if he has a firearm and uses it for the intent purpose of securing his capital land assets etc
    well, your "client" did something that caused his rights to be abrogated, didn't he? and if you were actually a lawyer, you would be able to explain to your "client" why he gave up his 2nd amend rights.


    My client is basically asking me to sue the government because he feels that if he can't own a gun then the government isn't giving him the same rights according to the US Constitution that everyone else has. He is asking me to recover all of the taxes he had paid to the government because he says the Constitution does not give him the right to bear arms anymore...
    well, since you are obviously not an attorney, either that must mean he wants you to sue the gov, with you being the petitioner or he is asking you to do something illegal. Which is it?


  8. #8

    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    California imposes a five year ban on firearms possession following a Sec. 5150 or 5250 hold. The five year bar for a Sec. 5150 hold can be disputed in court. See Welfare & Institutions Code, Sec. 8103.

    The lifetime ban for a Sec. 5250 hold comes from federal law. 18 USC Sec. 922(d)(4). See 18 USC Sec. 925(c) for a provision relating to relief from that disability.
    This 5250 was from a long time ago certainly more then 10 years.

    Does the 5 year ban get extended some how? Or are there things that trigger the 5 year ban to last longer? I have to admit I'm a bit confused.

    From my understanding once you received a 5250 your name was put into the NCIC database and the DOJ would forever from that point reject any firearms dealers from selling you a legal firearm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You don't really understand what a contract is, do you?

    What do you think a contract is? Do you agree or disagree that the Constitution is a contract between the individual and the government?



    well, your "client" did something that caused his rights to be abrogated, didn't he? and if you were actually a lawyer, you would be able to explain to your "client" why he gave up his 2nd amend rights.


    My client was placed in a mental institution involuntarily. He didn't do anything to anyone and was not a danger to self or others.

    well, since you are obviously not an attorney, either that must mean he wants you to sue the gov, with you being the petitioner or he is asking you to do something illegal. Which is it?

    What do you mean by the word attorney? How do you sue the government? I want to know that.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    California imposes a five year ban on firearms possession following a Sec. 5150 or 5250 hold. The five year bar for a Sec. 5150 hold can be disputed in court. See Welfare & Institutions Code, Sec. 8103.

    The lifetime ban for a Sec. 5250 hold comes from federal law. 18 USC Sec. 922(d)(4). See 18 USC Sec. 925(c) for a provision relating to relief from that disability.
    quite right. What court would I go to so that I can challenge this awful infliction upon my client's second amendment right?

    My client literally wants all his tax dollars back from the government and he wants to leave this country because he says that he has no second amendment right anymore and that the Constitution is null and void to him because of this federal lifetime ban on firearms.

    My client is not interested in supporting a government that promises him the right to bear arms , while simultaneously giving him a lifetime ban due to the fact that he must now switch careers and incur heavy losses in his business. He wants to get all his tax dollars back and leave the USA because he believes that his second amendment right / claim does not exist anymore because of this life time firearm ban.

    What federal court do I make this argument in, and what kind of document do I file a writ a tort? Please just point me in the right direction in terms of the proper court to make this argument in and what type of paperwork i need to file with the respective court.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    If you are supporting your "client" in his mistaken beliefs, or suggesting that he shouldn't have to pay taxes, you're not helping him.

    He can attempt to employ his statutory remedies under 18 USC Sec 922(d)(4).

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    You don't really understand what a contract is, do you?

    What do you think a contract is? Do you agree or disagree that the Constitution is a contract between the individual and the government?
    what difference does it make what I think a contract is? What difference does it make if I think it is or isn't a contract between the individual and the government?



    well, your "client" did something that caused his rights to be abrogated, didn't he? and if you were actually a lawyer, you would be able to explain to your "client" why he gave up his 2nd amend rights.


    My client was placed in a mental institution involuntarily. He didn't do anything to anyone and was not a danger to self or others.
    must have done something. The cops stopped randomly grabbing people walking down the street and tossing them in a mental institution at least 20 years ago so your "client" would not have been subjected to that. That means he did something to make the hospital folks believe your "client" had to be placed in a mental institution.

    well, since you are obviously not an attorney, either that must mean he wants you to sue the gov, with you being the petitioner or he is asking you to do something illegal. Which is it?

    What do you mean by the word attorney?
    what do you mean by the word attorney?
    How do you sue the government? I want to know that.
    pick up a piece of paper; write an acceptable complaint; file it with the proper court


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    and didn't you see that "NO REFUNDS" on your 1040? and boy do they mean it.

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