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  1. #1

    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
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    California imposes a five year ban on firearms possession following a Sec. 5150 or 5250 hold. The five year bar for a Sec. 5150 hold can be disputed in court. See Welfare & Institutions Code, Sec. 8103.

    The lifetime ban for a Sec. 5250 hold comes from federal law. 18 USC Sec. 922(d)(4). See 18 USC Sec. 925(c) for a provision relating to relief from that disability.
    This 5250 was from a long time ago certainly more then 10 years.

    Does the 5 year ban get extended some how? Or are there things that trigger the 5 year ban to last longer? I have to admit I'm a bit confused.

    From my understanding once you received a 5250 your name was put into the NCIC database and the DOJ would forever from that point reject any firearms dealers from selling you a legal firearm.

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    You don't really understand what a contract is, do you?

    What do you think a contract is? Do you agree or disagree that the Constitution is a contract between the individual and the government?



    well, your "client" did something that caused his rights to be abrogated, didn't he? and if you were actually a lawyer, you would be able to explain to your "client" why he gave up his 2nd amend rights.


    My client was placed in a mental institution involuntarily. He didn't do anything to anyone and was not a danger to self or others.

    well, since you are obviously not an attorney, either that must mean he wants you to sue the gov, with you being the petitioner or he is asking you to do something illegal. Which is it?

    What do you mean by the word attorney? How do you sue the government? I want to know that.

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    Quote Quoting Mr. Knowitall
    View Post
    California imposes a five year ban on firearms possession following a Sec. 5150 or 5250 hold. The five year bar for a Sec. 5150 hold can be disputed in court. See Welfare & Institutions Code, Sec. 8103.

    The lifetime ban for a Sec. 5250 hold comes from federal law. 18 USC Sec. 922(d)(4). See 18 USC Sec. 925(c) for a provision relating to relief from that disability.
    quite right. What court would I go to so that I can challenge this awful infliction upon my client's second amendment right?

    My client literally wants all his tax dollars back from the government and he wants to leave this country because he says that he has no second amendment right anymore and that the Constitution is null and void to him because of this federal lifetime ban on firearms.

    My client is not interested in supporting a government that promises him the right to bear arms , while simultaneously giving him a lifetime ban due to the fact that he must now switch careers and incur heavy losses in his business. He wants to get all his tax dollars back and leave the USA because he believes that his second amendment right / claim does not exist anymore because of this life time firearm ban.

    What federal court do I make this argument in, and what kind of document do I file a writ a tort? Please just point me in the right direction in terms of the proper court to make this argument in and what type of paperwork i need to file with the respective court.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    If you are supporting your "client" in his mistaken beliefs, or suggesting that he shouldn't have to pay taxes, you're not helping him.

    He can attempt to employ his statutory remedies under 18 USC Sec 922(d)(4).

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    You don't really understand what a contract is, do you?

    What do you think a contract is? Do you agree or disagree that the Constitution is a contract between the individual and the government?
    what difference does it make what I think a contract is? What difference does it make if I think it is or isn't a contract between the individual and the government?



    well, your "client" did something that caused his rights to be abrogated, didn't he? and if you were actually a lawyer, you would be able to explain to your "client" why he gave up his 2nd amend rights.


    My client was placed in a mental institution involuntarily. He didn't do anything to anyone and was not a danger to self or others.
    must have done something. The cops stopped randomly grabbing people walking down the street and tossing them in a mental institution at least 20 years ago so your "client" would not have been subjected to that. That means he did something to make the hospital folks believe your "client" had to be placed in a mental institution.

    well, since you are obviously not an attorney, either that must mean he wants you to sue the gov, with you being the petitioner or he is asking you to do something illegal. Which is it?

    What do you mean by the word attorney?
    what do you mean by the word attorney?
    How do you sue the government? I want to know that.
    pick up a piece of paper; write an acceptable complaint; file it with the proper court


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    and didn't you see that "NO REFUNDS" on your 1040? and boy do they mean it.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    5 years = California penalty
    Lifetime = federal penalty

    (in case it wasn't clear)

    Look, this is really simple. You're not going to court to sue on your client's behalf or do anything vaguely along those lines unless you're actually an attorney. Given that you're not, the entire issue is moot.

    If he wants legal advice, he needs an attorney. Not a friend who is trying to Google his way into some sort of lawsuit.

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    Quote Quoting lordofthevault
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    This 5250 was from a long time ago certainly more then 10 years.

    Does the 5 year ban get extended some how? Or are there things that trigger the 5 year ban to last longer? I have to admit I'm a bit confused.

    From my understanding once you received a 5250 your name was put into the NCIC database and the DOJ would forever from that point reject any firearms dealers from selling you a legal firearm.

    - - - Updated - - -

    You don't really understand what a contract is, do you?

    What do you think a contract is? Do you agree or disagree that the Constitution is a contract between the individual and the government?



    well, your "client" did something that caused his rights to be abrogated, didn't he? and if you were actually a lawyer, you would be able to explain to your "client" why he gave up his 2nd amend rights.


    My client was placed in a mental institution involuntarily. He didn't do anything to anyone and was not a danger to self or others.

    well, since you are obviously not an attorney, either that must mean he wants you to sue the gov, with you being the petitioner or he is asking you to do something illegal. Which is it?

    What do you mean by the word attorney? How do you sue the government? I want to know that.

    - - - Updated - - -



    quite right. What court would I go to so that I can challenge this awful infliction upon my client's second amendment right?

    My client literally wants all his tax dollars back from the government and he wants to leave this country because he says that he has no second amendment right anymore and that the Constitution is null and void to him because of this federal lifetime ban on firearms.

    My client is not interested in supporting a government that promises him the right to bear arms , while simultaneously giving him a lifetime ban due to the fact that he must now switch careers and incur heavy losses in his business. He wants to get all his tax dollars back and leave the USA because he believes that his second amendment right / claim does not exist anymore because of this life time firearm ban.

    What federal court do I make this argument in, and what kind of document do I file a writ a tort? Please just point me in the right direction in terms of the proper court to make this argument in and what type of paperwork i need to file with the respective court.
    It would appear that your friend needs a bit of a reality check.

    He's free to leave the US at any point he wants. Getting into another country though, is a different matter entirely. Serious psychiatric problems tend to make it more than a tad difficult to legally enter and reside elsewhere.

    Where he got the notion of getting his tax dollars back I do not know, but it's kind of funny. Perhaps he should take a look at the tax burdens placed upon individuals elsewhere in the world. He has no idea how lucky he is. No. Clue. Whatsoever.

  5. #5

    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Does my client have any means within the US Court System to get a firearm?

    If my client has a lifetime federal ban for firearms does that make his Constitutional 2nd Amendment Right Null and Void in the US Court System?


    Is there any argument my client can make to point out the fact that his lifetime federal firearms ban is in direct conflict with this 2nd amendment right as per the US Constitution?

    The way I see it as that we have a law that basically removes my clients right to bear arms unequivocally for the rest of his life, and my argument is that this lifetime federal firearms ban is in and of itself unconstitutional.

    What court do I file this argument at? I know its a federal law i'm disputing but which court takes up these arguments?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    You're not suing anyone or filing anything. Go to bed. Have your "friend" hire himself an attorney first thing tomorrow.

  7. #7

    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    You're not suing anyone or filing anything. Go to bed. Have your "friend" hire himself an attorney first thing tomorrow.
    Ok so my friend hires an attorney.

    What kind of document will be filed and in what Federal Court? To me this seems like a Constitutional Matter and it should be an intentional tort against the US Government?

    It is very bizarre from a logical perspective to have the US Government creating laws that prohibit my client from ever being able to bear a firearm for his entire life, while at the same time the Constitution provides this ability to all of the other citizens.

    Which law is greater? The Constitution or the lifetime firearm ban? Because from my point of view you have a life time fire arm ban superseding my clients 2nd amendment right. It would be as if someone put a life time ban on my clients freedom of speech and yet the Constitution would surely protect him from something that strikes at the heart of liberty itself.



    If you can have a lifetime ban from being able to possess firearms then where has my client's 2nd amendment rights gone... I would argue they have been nullified completely for the rest of my clients life due to a law which is not in the Constitution and directly conflicts with the 2nd Amendment.

    Now I'm sure if you are a Politician or if you are a Government Lawyer you might want to disagree but the majority of Americans can see the logic in my Constitutional Argument.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    How many times do you think the US Government has been sued over this stuff?

    How many times do you think such a suit has been successful?

    Are you deliberately ignoring the info provided by MKIA?

    And are you also of the position that a convicted felon who faces the same restriction should be able to fight such a rule even if he shot three strangers in the Mall? Tell me more about that.

    Are we doing last-minute homework for you? If so please at least provide juice and a cookie at break times.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    How many times do you think the US Government has been sued over this stuff?
    I don't know or care. I'm just interested in securing my clients 2nd Amendment Rights which seem to be now null and void anywhere in the Union. But according to the US Constitution his 2nd amendment right should not be arrested as such and should still be available to him including his ability to purchase a firearm.

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    How many times do you think such a suit has been successful?
    no clue. all I observe is that some how some way magically we have a law in the USA that voids and nullifies my clients 2nd Amendment Right to bear Arms in the Union. This is a serious issue that is a cause for alarm.

    What is next the first amendment becomes null and void?

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    Are you deliberately ignoring the info provided by MKIA?
    I just re-read this document and I do not understand how it is significant to my client. My client's firearm purchase for his business was adamantly rejected by the DOJ. He believes that he has a lifetime fire arm ban because of a 5250 and he was held for more then three days. And this involuntary mental hospitalization occurred well over five years ago. So do you think it is safe to assume that my client has a life time federal ban for firearms? I do because why else would his firearms purchase application get rejected... he was hospitalized well over 5 years ago.


    Furthermore the Government is asking my client to come out of pocket to determine this information and he is unwilling to pay for the livescan because he feels he shouldn't have to pay a fee to find out information about himself, when he is already paying taxes so that the government could collect this information on him in the first place.

    It would be awesome if my client did not have a lifetime federal ban for firearms. But what should be done? The government is attempting to shake him down just to find out this type of information by making him pay for a livescan.

    Why do you think I'm ignoring the MKIA information? Do you think my client does not have a federal life time firearms ban? Please explain.

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
    View Post
    And are you also of the position that a convicted felon who faces the same restriction should be able to fight such a rule even if he shot three strangers in the Mall? Tell me more about that.
    My client according to the Constitution has the right to bear arms but then according to another law that is not in the Constitution that right magically gets nullified by a lifetime federal ban for firearms.

    Quote Quoting Dogmatique
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    Are we doing last-minute homework for you? If so please at least provide juice and a cookie at break times.
    I really just want to see my client have the ability to defend his life capital and property, and the right is not being afforded to him in fact it has been arrested from him due to what very likely appears to be a lifetime federal firearms ban.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Do You Lose Your Firearms Rights After a 5250 Hold

    Quote Quoting lordofthevault
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    Ok so my friend hires an attorney.

    What kind of document will be filed and in what Federal Court? To me this seems like a Constitutional Matter and it should be an intentional tort against the US Government?
    If you hire a lawyer, as you have been told, you would file under 18 USC Sec. 925(c).

    Quote Quoting 18 USC Sec. 925(c)
    (c) A person who is prohibited from possessing, shipping, transporting, or receiving firearms or ammunition may make application to the Attorney General for relief from the disabilities imposed by Federal laws with respect to the acquisition, receipt, transfer, shipment, transportation, or possession of firearms, and the Attorney General may grant such relief if it is established to his satisfaction that the circumstances regarding the disability, and the applicant’s record and reputation, are such that the applicant will not be likely to act in a manner dangerous to public safety and that the granting of the relief would not be contrary to the public interest. Any person whose application for relief from disabilities is denied by the Attorney General may file a petition with the United States district court for the district in which he resides for a judicial review of such denial. The court may in its discretion admit additional evidence where failure to do so would result in a miscarriage of justice. A licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector conducting operations under this chapter, who makes application for relief from the disabilities incurred under this chapter, shall not be barred by such disability from further operations under his license pending final action on an application for relief filed pursuant to this section. Whenever the Attorney General grants relief to any person pursuant to this section he shall promptly publish in the Federal Register notice of such action, together with the reasons therefor.
    It is constitutional to keep firearms out of the hands of people who have a history of significant mental illness. Your talk of contracts, leaving the country, demanding a refund of your taxes and the like? Not the sort of thing that's going to send the message, "I'm better now."

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