Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 12
  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lakewood, Ohio
    Posts
    5

    Default Are Traffic Camera Tickets Legal in Ohio

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: Ohio

    Hello,

    Back in the first week of August, last year I had a traffic camera snap a picture of my car doing 35 in a 25 commercial zone.. I did not even notice any camera, found out later it was a portable unit the city had been using at different locations.. The notice arrived in the mail on October 10th. I first tried to fight with Cleveland, stating it was well over a month before I even got a notice and I thought there was some sort of limitation or time frame they have to issue these tickets.. It went around with no results.. I skipped the court date knowing even if I won the case. You will have to pay $100 for court fees. So either way would have been a loss.

    Later, I noticed Ohio courts ruled against the use of Traffic camera.. So if it is invalid for the city to use the camera systems now.. Does this throw the matter out for me? Can I call the collection agency pointing this out or call the city asking them to drop the debt collection?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    Well, you have a small problem. In the case you refer to, though the appeals court ruled the process unconstitutional, they declined to all him a refund because he elected not to challenge the ticket through process. Guess who else did that? If the ticket had been issued after the ruling, you may have had some ground underneath you.
    The court ruled 2-1 against Jodka on his claim that he should be reimbursed for the fine he paid, then subsequently sued over. The prevailing judges said Jodka had no standing to get the fine money back because he never went before a city officer to challenge the ticket, even as the court described the hearing that Jodka should have pursued as an "unconstitutional quasi-judicial process."
    http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index...era_syste.html

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lakewood, Ohio
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    OK, but I am not requesting a refund.. I am simply requesting for them to stop stating I owe them.

    Are you telling me once something is ruled "unconstitutional" they can continue to hound you for the money? Seems like the whole thing would be dismissed due to the fact it was basically ruled invalid..

    To me, it looks like Jodka agreed to pay the fine. Then later challenged the traffic cameras in court.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    Read the quote. You never challenged the process before the judgement was entered. You can try doing either of your solutions. They may have decided to do so or may have not. If they have not, your recourse is to set more case law if they sue you.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2010
    Location
    Lakewood, Ohio
    Posts
    5

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    No, I understand what you are saying.. and don't doubt you have a valid point.. please don't take this personal..

    I am simply stating I did not agree to pay any fine.. It was the courts decision to to default the ruling or judgement against me. In a case, that basically fails to prove I was in the car nor driving that day.

    So at this point, it was the courts decision to move forward in the case. Yet, personally, I refuse any part of participating in such matters due to the fact I feel the case was incomplete or invalid from the beginning and refused to be penalized even if winning the case.

    At this point, the process they used was ruled "unconstitutional" and still remains the matter. Yet, can they still validate this case even if now the entire process is ruled invalid?

    It's basically: I choose to pay no money or acknowledge their verdict. Later the traffic cameras are ruled void.. yet because this happen before the ruling, your fine still has to be paid..

    In a crazy way of thinking to put this in perspective. Its like saying:

    The system says a color is blue; you deny and say its green, they claim you are wrong and color remains blue. Later it is proved color is green, yet you have to admit its still blue. Due to the fact that it was agreed before the actual decision was proven different later on..

    The other case seems more like they say green, he admits green. Later gets the peers to change their mind.. then expects to have his agreement taken back.. To me thats too late..

    I bet if he never paid the fine, won the case. The charge would have been dropped.. Ergo no money paid.

    Sorry if that confuses you.. I am just trying to understand the court logic.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    I understand your point. I refuse to submit to illegal process. Your problem is it had not been declared illegal process at the time by a court.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    I first tried to fight with Cleveland, ...
    So is this to mean that you were cited by a speed camera in the City of Cleveland, Ohio?

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    Later, I noticed Ohio courts ruled against the use of Traffic camera..
    Which courts are you talking about? And ruled against the use of traffic cameras for which cities in Ohio?

    Can you post a link or links to the court case or cases you are talking about?

    And can you find any indication that the courts ruled against the city of Cleveland Ohio and ordered it to take the cameras down?

    It appears that the Ohio Supreme court has agreed to review the legality of cameras in that state but until the matter is reviewed and an order from the Supreme Court comes down to all entities within the state to cease use of cameras for issuing traffic violations, then each municipality is independent with its use of these cameras.

    For example, in this story: Judge deals blow to Ohio village's use of speeding traffic cameras, the judge actually did order the village of New Miami to stop using speeding cameras, but he also approved class action status, meaning thousands of drivers potentially could seek refunds.... But that has no effect on any other camera system being operated by any other entity in the state of Ohio.

    And certainly not the city of Cleveland, Ohio. Because it appaers that Cleveland, Ohio's Traffic Enforcement Cameras appear to be alive and well and still operational to their full extent.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    I am simply stating I did not agree to pay any fine..
    Well, you were ordered by the court to handle the matter somehow. Obviously, fight it and get it dismissed or pay the fine in a timely manner.

    You claim you thought you had a date argument... That you were not notified of the citation until October even though you admit to speeding at 35 in 25 zone. What code section is it that says it was supposed to be delivered to you within the month period as you described here:

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    I thought there was some sort of limitation or time frame they have to issue these tickets.
    Something tells me there is not any sort of time limit and you were just speculating but that means the citation was still valid and you were still obligated to get it handled in a timely manner.

    In fact here is 413.031 Use of Automated Cameras to Impose Civil Penalties upon Red Light and Speeding Violators and I cannot find any sort of reference to a time limitation.

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    It was the courts decision to to default the ruling or judgement against me.
    Courts might tend to do that when people are notified of their rights and responsibilities and they fail to comply.

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    In a case, that basically fails to prove I was in the car nor driving that day.
    There is no requirement that they prove you were the driver. As (presumably) the registered owner of the vehicle, you are responsible and this is mentioned in the code itself.

    413.031

    (c) Speeding Offense Liability Imposed. The owner of a vehicle shall be liable for the penalty imposed under this section if the vehicle is operated at a speed in excess of the limitations set forth in Section 433.03.


    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    Yet, personally, I refuse any part of participating in such matters due to the fact I feel the case was incomplete or invalid from the beginning and refused to be penalized even if winning the case.
    That decision is not up to you. Because what you "felt" was completely baseless.

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    At this point, the process they used was ruled "unconstitutional" and still remains the matter.
    Apparently, not in Cleveland!

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    View Post
    Yet, can they still validate this case even if now the entire process is ruled invalid?
    You can make of it what you choose, but unless you have a particular court case that says the entire state cannot use cameras, then you must comply with the process or suffer the consequences. What are the consequences you ask?

    Well, it appears that if you don't pay within $20 days from the date it was mailed, you are penalized $20, if you don't pay within 40 days from the date of mailing, then you ow an additional $40 for a total of $60 IN ADDITION to the $100 original fine amount that you are required to pay. And of course, its been longer than 60 days since October of 2013, so you're stuch with the original fine, the late fees as well as:

    413.032 Costs of Collection of Unpaid Tickets for Photo-Enforced Offenses

    In addition to any other fees or charges authorized by these Codified Ordinances in relation to the commission of a violation of division (b) or division (c) of Section 413.031, a person liable for the penalties established by division (o) of Section 413.031 may be assessed a fee under this section in an amount equal to the costs paid by the City to any vendor for the costs of collection of the debt.

    As for this part...

    Quote Quoting mike44107
    I skipped the court date knowing even if I won the case. You will have to pay $100 for court fees. So either way would have been a loss.
    Where do you get that part about having to pay $100 even if you win? Or is that simply your way of making yourself feel better about it all.

    Lastly, I don't know if this Ohio Revised Code applies to this type of fine or not... I think it should, you'll soon find out I guess:

    4503.39 Blocking registration of vehicle lessees with outstanding fines or costs.

    With regard to a motor vehicle leased by or in the name of a person named in a suspension order or who is precluded from registering or transferring registration of a motor vehicle because of a failure to pay a fine or court costs, the registrar of motor vehicles shall adopt procedures as indicated in division (B) of section 1901.44 , division (B) of section 1905.202 , division (B) of section 1907.25 , division (D) of section 2935.27 , division (A) of section 2937.221 , division (A) of section 2947.09 , and division (B) of section 4510.22 of the Revised Code. The procedures shall prescribe the information and methodology necessary to implement those divisions.


    - - - Updated - - -

    Adding...

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Posts
    244

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    the OP can file a motion to reconsider ... they have been allowed past the time normally allowed if its in the interests of justice.

    its a long shot but the only shot the OP has .... the OP should check and see what happens if you don't pay at all ... and make a decision accordingly

  9. #9
    Join Date
    May 2014
    Posts
    2

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
    View Post
    If the ticket had been issued after the ruling, you may have had some ground underneath you.
    I just got a $100 photo radar ticket in the mail for going 38 in a 25 from the Village of Linndale, a notorious photo speed trap city.

    Since my ticket was issued after the court ruling, can I challenge the ticket based on the fact that the court has ruled that photo radar tickets are unconstitutional in Ohio? If so, how would I go about that?

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Traffic Camera Ticket Cleveland, Ohio. Yet, Ohio Ruled Camera Illegal

    The 8th Ohio District Court of Appeals ruled cities must allow motorists to fight tickets in Municipal Court, not before a hearing officer as it's been handled. This does not preclude them from using them currently as long as you have the right to appear in Parma court to fight it. The OH Senate has a bill in process aimed at localities like Linndale which, after their mayors courts were yanked, replaced the revenue with speed cameras. You can of course plead not guilty and fight the ticket in Parma Muni Court. It will be up to the city of Linndale to prove you were speeding. That of course can be challenged by challenging the credibility of the speed camera unless it was calibrated before and after you were cited and whether a police officer visually confirmed your speed at the time based on his training.


    Quote Quoting DavidZ
    View Post
    I just got a $100 photo radar ticket in the mail for going 38 in a 25 from the Village of Linndale, a notorious photo speed trap city.

    Since my ticket was issued after the court ruling, can I challenge the ticket based on the fact that the court has ruled that photo radar tickets are unconstitutional in Ohio? If so, how would I go about that?

    1. Sponsored Links
       

Page 1 of 2 1 2 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Points from Red Light Camera Tickets
    By jyeh74 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 06-08-2013, 01:20 PM
  2. Speeding Tickets: Are Camera Speeding Tickets Legal in Washington
    By fishy in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 12-13-2012, 05:59 PM
  3. Speeding Tickets: Camera Speeding Tickets in Washington DC
    By MikeInMD in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 11-27-2009, 09:15 AM
  4. Lights, Signs and Traffic Controls: Red Light Camera Tickets
    By helpme34 in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: 07-26-2009, 12:28 AM
  5. Are Traffic Tickets Legal Documents
    By braddaruler in forum Moving Violations, Parking and Traffic Tickets
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-14-2006, 04:43 AM
 
 
Sponsored Links

Legal Help, Information and Resources