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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    13

    Default Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income

    My question involves unemployment benefits for the state of: New York

    Hi, This person works in NY but lives in NJ.

    A friend of mine was unemployed twice in his life and collected unemployment benefits during both those periods of time. Each period was over a year long. During the time, however, he was consulting on the side which generated a sizable income. He didn’t report this income to unemployment but did report it on his taxes. It was his understanding that income from self-employment was not included when being considered for unemployment benefits so he continued to collect.

    He has now been contacted by the Dept of Labor in NY and was asked to come. I don’t know what the exact charges are but it sounds pretty serious. It mentioned something about fraud. What can he expect to have happen? Charges? Worse, criminal charges? Jail time? Simply paying the money back? A combination? Please advise as we’re both very concerned as we wait for this meeting. Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income. Now What

    "We" do not need to be worried at all. Only "he".

    HE will at minimum have to pay the money back. If he does so promptly and regularly, it is unlikely (I do not say impossible) that any more will come of it. They are much less inclined to prosecute if the money is paid back.

    However, if he fights them, or if he agrees and fails to produce, criminal prosecution is much more likely.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2005
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    Behind a Desk
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    98,846

    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income. Now What

    As is clearly explained in the UI claimant's handbook,
    Quote Quoting What is considered work? Any activity that brings in or may bring in income at any time must be reported as work.

    You must report:
    [indent

    Every day of work that you perform, even if it was an hour or less;
    • Work that is for yourself, a friend, a relative, an employer or in connection with a public office that you hold and
    • Unpaid training that leads to a job. You must report this work even if you were not paid. Here are some examples of work you must report:
    •Work done on a straight commission basis. This is considered employment even if you do not get the commission until later, no sales were made or you receive no payment.
    • A work study job, if you are going to school.
    • A “working interview,” where a prospective employer asks you to work – with or without pay – in order to demonstrate that you can do the job.
    Freelance work or self-employment.
    • Activities connected with starting a business.
    • Doing “favors” for another business.

    [/indent]
    If you are unsure whether or not what you doing is considered work, you should send us an e-mail (sign in with your NY.GOV ID and click on “Messages”) or call the Telephone Claims Center* and give all details before claiming benefits.
    Quote Quoting What if I want to start my own business?
    Call the Telephone Claims Center* before you take any steps to start a business. You are considered to be employed if you are operating or starting a business by yourself, with a partner or in a corporate arrangement. This includes time spent during the day, evenings or on weekends, even if no sales are made or no money is earned. Unless you are enrolled in the Self Employment Assistance Program, business start-up activities may cause you to lose Unemployment Insurance benefits. For more information about the Self Employment Assistance Program please see our web site at www.labor.ny.gov and page 31: “Starting a business: the Self Employment Assistance Program.”
    For freelance work, the deduction appears to be based on the number of days worked, not how many of hours of work were performed. That is to say, if you work one hour on one day at a freelance job, you report that to the state and they reduce your UI benefit by one day. I expect that the "sizeable income" will support an inference that work was performed every day, and was wholly disqualifying. In terms of financial penalties,
    Quote Quoting What is willful misrepresentation?
    Willful misrepresentation occurs when you knowingly and purposely make a false statement in order to get Unemployment Insurance benefits. This includes knowingly and purposely withholding information. Important: Willful misrepresentation is fraud. If you willfully make a false statement or representation to get benefits, you may:

    • Be required to pay back the overpayment;
    • Be assessed “forfeit days,” or days in the future for which you cannot receive Unemployment Insurance benefits and
    • Be charged $100 or a 15 percent monetary penalty on the full amount of the overpaid benefits, whichever is higher
    There is also potential for criminal prosecution for willful violations during weekly reports to UI.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,340

    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income

    I don’t know what the exact charges are but it sounds pretty serious.

    It is.

    It mentioned something about fraud.

    It is.

    What can he expect to have happen?

    Bad things.

    Charges?

    Possibly.

    Worse, criminal charges?

    Possibly

    Jail time?

    Possibly

    Simply paying the money back?

    He'll definitely have to pay the money back and he'd better do it pretty damned fast

    A combination?

    Possibly.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
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    13

    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income

    Thanks for the replies.

    I know all these things are possible. I know bad things can happen. Do you have any experience here that you may be able to share possibly in terms of far this can really go. Maybe in terms of what is the probability of anything happening beyond paying the money back? He’s afraid he’s going to show up at the meeting to be handcuffed and carted away for 5 years. Any experience on what can be expected? thanks

  6. #6
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    Jun 2006
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    Massachusetts
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    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income

    That is not going to happen. I can promise you that.

    He WILL need to repay the money. The odds are that as long as he agrees to repay every last cent he defrauded and does it absolutely as agreed (no late payments) nothing more will happen. As I said, they are not interested in prosecution unless he makes it necessary. What they want is the money back. It is VERY unlikely that he will be prosecuted unless he refuses, or fails, to repay. They will definitely not be arresting him on the spot.

    But if he promises to repay the money within, say, six months, he'd damned well better have it repaid within 5 months and 29 days or things can get ugly.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Good heavens. I just saw the answers you're getting on the other forum "down the street". No wonder you're worried.

    Look, do yourself a favor. Wait until a poster on that forum by the screen name of "commentator" answers. She worked in the UI system for over 30 years and she knows it up, down and sideways. If SHE says he's going to jail, he's going to jail. If she says he's not, then he's not. You can take her answers to the bank.

    And btw, my answers are based on ones I've seen her give in previous cases. But if she and I, or she and anyone else, disagree on a UI case, go with her every time.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jan 2013
    Posts
    13

    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income

    Thanks so much for that update. Is there anything I can do to solicit a response from “commentator” or is it just luck that she see my thread and answer? Thanks so much for your answers too. I’m worried because of the amount of money and because it was over two separate occasions. I’m not even sure if it considered to be two separate occasions if he was never previously “caught.”

    Btw, they asked him to come into the office. He was given a time and date. Period. Do you have any idea if that means they’re taking this more seriously? I would think they would have made their demands on the phone or through mail correspondence. thanks so much.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
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    24,521

    Default Re: Caught Collecting Unemployment While Still Earning an Income

    Commentator never misses an unemployment thread and she has answered.

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