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  1. #11
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    334

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Quote Quoting L-1
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    Just remember, the officer can only stop and cite one car at a time. (At least that's what the judge is going to tell you.)
    If the police can stop an entire freeway in rush hour traffic, they can stop and cite more than one car. Besides, it has happened to me.

    And, I doubt a judge would say that, because it is not true.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting quantumn
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    That's not the defense. Most here are confusing my remark about fairness, with dealing with the ticket. Give your head a shake.
    I think it is a given that police can selectively enforce the law on whomever they choose and let the others go. You'll have to find another angle. Why do you hear of so many cases of blondes and boobs getting warnings?

    I suspect there is something about the appearance of your car that stood out to him which could be make, model, color, wheels, position in the pack, speed in the pack, or simply your appearance.

  2. #12

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Oh, I never never get a warning, it's always a ticket. I drive a base 2007 Grand Cherokee with no decorations, and I'm a 59 yo male.

    But remember, selective enforcement is not my angle. Anyway, I know how far that would go. Sure we were all speeding, but the cop stopping only me does not mean it was fair, and it doesn't mean the others were not speeding. (Why can't right-wingers see this?)

    My goal, as stated in the OP, is to not have this go on my record. Deferred adjudication would be fine. Traffic school would be fine. Administrative fees would be fine. Why do I have to spell this out as if some Rightists thinks I'm trying to cheat the System? And yes, I think it is political.

  3. #13
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Posts
    24,237

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    I am about as far from a right-winger as it is possible to get, and I still maintain that it doesn't matter a damn if others were speeding and only you got caught. "They were doing it too and they didn't get a ticket!" hasn't worked since kindergarten and wasn't likely to have worked very often then. One more time, in chorus: Life isn't fair.

    If you don't want a traffic violation on your record, don't commit them. That's the only way to guarantee it.

  4. #14
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Posts
    1,383

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Both of you are not contributing to anything. OP: Please read Barry's thread, file a discovery request, and post your results.

    In the end, that police report is all that matters.

    A word of advice, as this is in Snohomish County: Wait until the 14th day before your hearing to file the discovery request. In that scenario, you will more than likely not receive your materials in time- resulting in a dismissal.

  5. #15
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
    Posts
    9,170

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    Sure we were all speeding, but the cop stopping only me does not mean it was fair, and it doesn't mean the others were not speeding.
    Did you say "fair"? Are you kidding me? Where is it in the law that states that every offender must be apprehended and prosecuted? And skip simple traffic infractions that are not even criminal matters in your state... Think about all the files of unsolved murder cases that sit in archives not only in your state, but in each and every jurisdiction.

    And whether others were speeding or not does little if anything to change your guilt or innocence. Think about it... The fact that the officer only stopped and cited you -most likely because you were the fastest, or gaining on those in the lead, or possibly in the lead yourself- has left you without a defense, (meaning under normal circumstances you are "likely to be found guilty" -then again this is Washington State); if, on the other hand, the officer had some sort of net where he can grab every speeder, you'd still be included... So how has the fact that he only stopped you make it unfair?

    The way the laws are enacted and enforced, the prosecution must prove your guilt by preponderance of the evidence (the legal standard in Washington state.). Those laws do not include any sort of assessment of other people's actions nor any need to establish whether they were breaking the law, only that you were.

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    Why can't right-wingers see this?
    Maybe its because left wingers can't seem to figure out that staying within the limits of the law excludes them from being under the scope and scrutiny of this apparent "right wing conspiracy" to punish them for the offenses they actually committed!

    But seriously, to begin to understand why in this case, it would not be feasible for the officer to have attempted to pull over more than one car, is simply because it would then sacrifice the accuracy and validity of the evidence he is able to collect and preserve it until such a time that it can be properly recorded and maintained. Go back to the first line in your first post, and you'll see the word LIDAR... If you understood how Lidar works, you would understand that there are two components to every reading, a speed reading and a distance reading. Two cars makes for four reading, three cars would result in six. How would you suggest that the officer should record all six readings, then get on his motorcycle or in his car, chase and stop three different vehicle, while ensuring everyone else's safe passage, all while keeping track of who was leading, middle and last, meaning which set of readings belonged to which car? Only to then get out of his car and approach three cars while ensuring his own safety from who knows how many occupants in three different cars, followed by him collecting three sets of documents from all three drivers and matching those to each set of readings...

    Heck, I am tired AND stressed out just from typing it... And not only that, but you're also suggesting that the officer be able to spit out tickets like hotcakes, otherwise, those who might not have a defense will start to argue about constitutional rights and alleged violations of their 4th amendment for being unlawfully detained for an unreasonable amount of time for a traffic stop... You would not want to be the third driver to receive his citation after 40 minutes of waiting. Why should anyone else be subjected to that just to please your standard of "fair"?

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    My goal, as stated in the OP, is to not have this go on my record. Deferred adjudication would be fine. Traffic school would be fine. Administrative fees would be fine. Why do I have to spell this out as if some Rightists thinks I'm trying to cheat the System?
    By definition, your record should reflect an accurate representation of your offenses for a preset period of time. This is part of the "prescribed penalty"... But while you cry foul at others not getting cited and "why are they not held to the standard I am being subjected to", you're defining your goal as being one where you yourself are not subjected to the prescribed penalty, you want something different! And I suppose "deferred adjudication" and "traffic school" were products of the Leftist think tank, and so you're fine subscribing to them...

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    And yes, I think it is political.
    Is that because you're able to momentarily talk out of both ends at the same time?

    You can make it whatever you see fit. It still does not change the fact that it has nothing to do with politics, and a lot to do with you making a conscious decision to drive in a way to subject yourself to the added scrutiny. applies to everyone equally and randomly. You can have 100% control over it but you choose not to.

  6. #16

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Quote Quoting BrendanjKeegan
    View Post
    Both of you are not contributing to anything. OP: Please read Barry's thread, file a discovery request, and post your results.

    In the end, that police report is all that matters.

    A word of advice, as this is in Snohomish County: Wait until the 14th day before your hearing to file the discovery request. In that scenario, you will more than likely not receive your materials in time- resulting in a dismissal.
    Will do, and understand.

    And thank you Brendan, I'll wait to file. So the day of the hearing is day 0 and I count back from there?

    One other thing I'll note is that the cop thought my insurance card was for the car I'm driving, and filled in the ticket with the info of my old car which I sold 2 years ago. Both are Grand Cherokees, the old one a 1999 and the newer one a 2007. And on the ticket he filled in my old plate number, when I have a temporary tag on the newer one I was driving.

    Don't know whether that makes a difference.

    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Maybe its because left wingers
    ... deletia ...

    {hehe} Found my right-winger...


    Quote Quoting That Guy
    View Post
    Go back to the first line in your first post, and you'll see the word LIDAR... If you understood how Lidar works,
    ...

    If you look around here you'll find that I am one of the very few who appealed a LIDAR speeding conviction. And WON! (under a slightly modified username, as I couldn't recover that password) Marysville, WA, again Snoho County but that time city police. The prosecutor was actually amused and impressed that I'd won. We all know that traffic court is a meat grinder and you're unlikely to win there without significant error by the cop. And even with significant error I still lost in that hearing, of course. But the higher court had some sense, fortunately.

  7. #17
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    334

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Quote Quoting quantumn
    View Post
    And even with significant error I still lost in that hearing, of course. But the higher court had some sense, fortunately.
    I have also found that to be the case.

    It's as thought the judges in the higher courts are more knowledgeable of the law, they are less biased or less jaded. Or a combo of the three.

  8. #18

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    Hm, in reading Barry's guide, I find that a pre-hearing conference may be ordered. This will delay the actual hearing beyond 14 days. Maybe I should wait until after any pre-hearing conference and file 14 days before the hearing?

    And would the hearing day be 0, to count back?

  9. #19
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    849

    Default Re: 10 Over - Wsp

    In most counties (Spokane is an exception) there is no pre-hearing conference for infraction cases. Pretrial matters are handled on the same day as your hearing. Motions are presented orally, immediately after your case is called but before you are sworn in for testimony. Any deals with the prosecutor would be made just before the hearing begins. In Barry’s guide, page 1, section entitled “The Hearing”, below the bullets, he discusses the sequence your hearing will follow.

    The hearing date is zero, and you count back 14 calendar days. If that lands on a weekend or court holiday, go back to the previous business day.

    - - - Updated - - -

    Now that I think about it, I guess you could not land on a weekend counting back 2 weeks (unless they have court on Sat, which I doubt).

  10. #20

    Default Re: Speeding, 10 MPH Over the Limit

    All-ritey then, today is the 14th day before the 'trial' and I've prepared and filed my subpoena duces tecum and motion for a speedy trial. I'd post them here, but there doesn't seem to be any way to attach documents.

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