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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    9

    Default Commercial Vehicle Citation for Reflective Triangles and Signage

    My question involves vehicle maintenance laws for the State of: California

    I received a citation for CVC 25300a (reflective triangles) and CVC 27900a (trademark on door of commercial vehicle). I was not stopped during darkness and I was driving a service body F-450 vehicle. The officer stopped me at a random truck inspection location and determined my vehicle was a commercial vehicle by measuring the width being greater than 80". The citing officer was different than the initial officer I spoke with. I received a correctable citation.

    I do not believe I need to have the reflective triangles because it was not dark. It also seems that I do not need to have a company name on the side of the vehicle because it does not seem that I fall under the commercial vehicle classification (not 3 or more axles, not over 40 ft, and a few others).

    I can correct this and have to pay a $50 fee, pay $250, go to court, or trial by written declaration. I am planning on trial by written declaration. Could I have some advice on what to do? Thanks

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    LA LA Land
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    9,170

    Default Re: Commercial Vehicle Citation for Reflective Triangles and Signage

    Quote Quoting buyer2476
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    My question involves vehicle maintenance laws for the State of: California

    I received a citation for CVC 25300a (reflective triangles) and CVC 27900a (trademark on door of commercial vehicle). I was not stopped during darkness and I was driving a service body F-450 vehicle. The officer stopped me at a random truck inspection location and determined my vehicle was a commercial vehicle by measuring the width being greater than 80". The citing officer was different than the initial officer I spoke with. I received a correctable citation.

    I do not believe I need to have the reflective triangles because it was not dark. It also seems that I do not need to have a company name on the side of the vehicle because it does not seem that I fall under the commercial vehicle classification (not 3 or more axles, not over 40 ft, and a few others).

    I can correct this and have to pay a $50 fee, pay $250, go to court, or trial by written declaration. I am planning on trial by written declaration. Could I have some advice on what to do? Thanks
    You haven't told us what time of day it was when this happened, and aside from it being a "service body F-450" vehicle which could take on a number of different roles in practice, you haven't told us in what capacity you use it or how is it set up to carry/tow loads or other vehicles.

    Here is 25300(a)

    CVC 25300(a) Every vehicle which, if operated during darkness, would be subject to the provisions of Section 25100, and every truck tractor, irrespective of width, shall at all times be equipped with at least three red emergency reflectors. The reflectors need be carried by only one vehicle in a combination.

    That will await further clarification form you....

    AS for 27900(a):

    CVC 27900 (a) Every motor vehicle or combination of vehicles used to carry the property of others for hire or used to carry passengers for hire, any truck or truck tractor having three or more axles or any truck tractor with a semitrailer, and all commercial motor vehicles, as defined in subdivision (c) of Section 34601, shall have displayed on both sides of each vehicle or on both sides of one of the vehicles in each combination of vehicles the name or trademark of the person under whose authority the vehicle or combination of vehicles is being operated.


    It applies to commercial vehicles as defined under 34601(c) which states:

    CVC 34601(c) (1) As used in this division, except as provided in paragraph (2), a “commercial motor vehicle” means any self-propelled vehicle listed in subdivisions (a), (b), (f), (g), and (k) of Section 34500, any motortruck of two or more axles that is more than 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating, and any other motor vehicle used to transport property for compensation
    .

    Quote Quoting buyer2476
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    It also seems that I do not need to have a company name on the side of the vehicle because it does not seem that I fall under the commercial vehicle classification (not 3 or more axles, not over 40 ft, and a few others).
    Where are you getting the "3 or more axles" as well as the "40 feet" or any of the other unmentioned ones?

    Form the underlined portion under 34601... Your F450 is self propelled, it has two or more axles, it could possibly weight 10,000 lbs or more, and it might fit the definition of a "motortruck" which is defined under CVC 410 as:

    CVC 410 A “motor truck” or “motortruck” is a motor vehicle designed, used, or maintained primarily for the transportation of property.


    Lastly, you maybe correct about the $50 correction fees for two violations however, it appears you might run short with $250 if you choose to fight them. Each of 25300(a) and 27900(a) runs $197, which adds up to $394.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Sep 2011
    Location
    OH10
    Posts
    17,019

    Default Re: Commercial Vehicle Citation for Reflective Triangles and Signage

    So were you towing a trailer or did you have hazmat?

    (f) A combination of a motortruck and a vehicle or vehicles set forth in subdivision (e) that exceeds 40 feet in length when coupled together.

    (g) A truck, or a combination of a truck and any other vehicle, transporting hazardous materials.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    9

    Default Re: Commercial Vehicle Citation for Reflective Triangles and Signage

    The stop was at about 11:00 in the morning so no dought it was not operated during darkness.

    The officer cannot prove that I was being compensated so how can he say that it is a commercial motor vehicle.

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
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    LA LA Land
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    Default Re: Commercial Vehicle Citation for Reflective Triangles and Signage

    You're not reading what I posted... You're only reading the first sentence of each code section and ignoring the rest. While in your case, the provisions described in the first sentence do not apply, if you would read the entire code section, the other provisions that are described in the remainder of each of the code sections do indeed apply!
    Furthermore, and instead of repeating the same information you initially came with, you might want to try to answer the questions that were asked.

    Quote Quoting buyer2476
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    The stop was at about 11:00 in the morning so no dought it was not operated during darkness.
    CVC 25300(a) Every vehicle which, if operated during darkness, would be subject to the provisions of Section 25100, and every truck tractor, irrespective of width, shall at all times be equipped with at least three red emergency reflectors. The reflectors need be carried by only one vehicle in a combination.


    That means two things:

    The requirement to have reflectors on ALL vehicles that are operated during darkness is subject to the provisions of 25100... This part in not relevant to you. But, 25300 continues to say: "every truck tractor, irrespective of width, shall at all times be equipped with at least three red emergency reflectors".

    Notice the "shall at all times" be equipped with at least three reflectors. So arguing that it was 11:00 in the morning will not get you from under a requirement that applies ALL TIMES (including 11:00 in the morning).

    And before you come back to say your F450 is not a truck tractor, this is why I said you haven't shared with us how you use your F450 or how is it set up to carry/tow loads or other vehicles. Fact is it can be set up to serve the same purpose and even if it only qualified as a motor truck (see definition in my last post), it appears all provisions that apply to motor trucks apply to truck trailers and therefore I'm not feeling how or why a judge will dismiss the charge on this one.

    Quote Quoting buyer2476
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    The officer cannot prove that I was being compensated so how can he say that it is a commercial motor vehicle.
    Where do you get the idea that using it for compensation is the only way that would qualify it as a commercial vehicle? Besides, are you saying that you bought/leased your F450 for what.... its fuel economy, its comfortable ride and its sportscar like styling and handling? Were you out for a cruise with the family at that time only to get pulled over?

    Again, read what I posted and you'll understand that under CVC 34601(c)(1), any self propelled vehicle that qualifies as a motor truck with two or more axles is defined as a commercial vehicle.

    In fact, go look at your license plates, do you have regular plates or commercial plates? And if you have commercial plates then by definition, you have a.... (wait for it)..... A "commercial vehicle". Now, if yours -at the time you were pulled over- exceeded the 10,000 pounds gross vehicle weight rating, then you shall have displayed on both sides of each vehicle or on both sides of one of the vehicles in each combination of vehicles the name or trademark of the person under whose authority the vehicle or combination of vehicles is being operated. You don't get to enjoy the privileges of a commercial vehicle and then when you fail to meet your responsibilities for having one you say "they can't prove I was using it for compensation". Well, on second thought, you can but you will lose that argument to the tune of an additional $172 in fines...

    Fighting this citation on the grounds you offered simply means you will be ordered to pat $397 in fines. All while you are expecting to skate through by only paying $50. For correctable violations, you have until the date shown on you notice to correct the violations, get the notice signed off and submit proof to the court along with $25 per correctable violation. Otherwise, submitting it too late means you'll have to pay the full fine. Your money, not mine... So do with it as you please.

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