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  1. #1
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    Question Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CA.

    My problem involves a red light ticket "I" received in Victorville, CA. They sent the ticket in my dad's name. He's old and bald and the picture of me in the ticket looks nothing like him. My police officer neighbor has suggested he go to court for the arraignment and plea not guilty on the basis of identity. My dad is convinced that in doing so, the court will force him to identify who is driving (me) and not doing so would be perjury.
    I can't seem to find any legal document saying that you don't legally have to legally testify. The 5th ammendment, from how I read it, seems to only protect against testifying against yourself. My thought process is that you can plead not guilty even if it is you and then you can't testify against yourself, right? So they can't require you to testify.
    Is there any legal code where it specifically states one cannot be required to testify? Or is there any way I can prove to him that he won't be perjury himself by not identifying me?

    Thanks in advance!

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Every driver in California needs to know about Snitch Tickets, the fake/phishing camera tickets sent out by the police to bluff registered owners into ID'ing the actual driver of the car. Over 30 California cities use them, and in some cities the fakes are more than half of everything the city mails out. Snitch Tickets have not been filed with the court, so they don’t say “Notice to Appear,” don’t have the court’s address and phone # on them, and usually say, on the back (in small letters), “Do not contact the court about this notice” or "Courtesy Notice - This is not a ticket." Since they have not been filed with the court, they have zero legal weight. You can, and should, ignore a Snitch Ticket. Skeptical? Google: Snitch Ticket.

    For those who've been near LA: Camera tickets from any city in LA County are voluntary, namely, the court does not report ignored camera tickets to the DMV, so your license/registration won't be held up. Skeptical? Google red light camera no consequence.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Who is the registered owner of the vehicle that was in use at the time of the infraction was committed?

    To answer your question, and while there is no law that requires him to disclose the identity of the driver, there is no law that would prevent a judge from asking a question of the defendant. And in this case, it is a simple question of "who was driving?"

    And even if there was no question asked of your Dad, there is nothing to stop the issuing agency from reissuing the citation under someone else's name who resides at the same household.

    So while I understand that your dad should not be held to answer for an offense that you committed. There is no guarantee that will ensure he is not, even with you saying he's old and bald, and even if he pleads "not guilty" and says "that is not me in the picture", ultimately, the decision as to whether the picture matches or not, is up to the judge.

    Don't fret though.... Others might have differing opinions...

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    My dad is the registered owner, which I am assuming is why they sent him the ticket.

    I understand they may ask him about the driver, but is he required to answer that? I've been told by my neighbor, who is a retired police officer, that while the police can lie and say that he is required to answer that question, the court cannot. Thus, while the court may ask that question, they cannot tell my dad that he is required to answer it. I understand that police don't always know the exact laws, but from what I've read, that seems to be the case.

    Also, according to my neighbor, since this is the arraignment, the issuing officer (or whoever it is since it was a camera) will not be present and thus they will be less likely to reissue it than if my dad was to either call the department to have them dismiss it OR go to the actual trial.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    My dad is the registered owner, which I am assuming is why they sent him the ticket.

    I understand they may ask him about the driver, but is he required to answer that? I've been told by my neighbor, who is a retired police officer, that while the police can lie and say that he is required to answer that question, the court cannot. Thus, while the court may ask that question, they cannot tell my dad that he is required to answer it. I understand that police don't always know the exact laws, but from what I've read, that seems to be the case.
    Who said anything about the court lying or the cops lying for that matter? The question is not about asking the court as question and having an expectation of whether the court will/won't tell the truth. The question is directed at the defendant and whether you like it or not, there is a certain level of expectation for him to tell the truth!

    Will the judge ask your Dad the question? I don't know.... But if you prefer I say "no" then here you go... "no"!

    Have there been cases where judges did ask if the registered owner knew who was driving his/her car? Yes... What transpired from there will depend on what each individual answer given was comprised of.

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Also, according to my neighbor, since this is the arraignment, the issuing officer (or whoever it is since it was a camera) will not be present and thus they will be less likely to reissue it than if my dad was to either call the department to have them dismiss it OR go to the actual trial.
    Again, who said anything about the officer being there to reissue it, or about your Dad calling the department to have them dismiss it or to go to the actual trial?

    The issuing agency can in fact, find out which citation was dismissed, which one was paid and which one was scheduled for trial. While they are under a restriction to issue the registered owner a notice to appear within 15 days of the date the violation was committed, once that notice is issued and if it happened to result in a dismissal or a not guilty finding, meaning even if it did go to trial and then get dismissed in court, then subsequent notices to other drivers for the same offense revert back to the one year time limitation pursuant to the state's statute of limitation placing a one year time limit on infraction charges.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Yes I understand the court may ask him who the driver is, but is my dad required to answer that question? Not answering a question is not lying. Can't he just say he doesn't wish to testify?

    And I was talking about calling the department and the trial because my neighbor said if we call the department, they'll search other members of the household right then and there and most likely figure out that it's me in the picture. The same if we go to trial, but it would be less likely to happen if it gets dismissed at arraignment. Is that the case? Is getting the ticket dismissed at the arraignment the best option here? Is there something better we can do to get out of this ticket?

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Yes I understand the court may ask him who the driver is, but is my dad required to answer that question?
    When the judge asks you a question, you answer it truthfully. Lying to the judge is a good way to go to jail quickly.

    Not answering a question is not lying. Can't he just say he doesn't wish to testify?
    He can say he doesn't wish to testify, and the judge can tell him "Too bad, do it anyway." If the answer is "I don't know", the next question will be "Why wasn't the car reported stolen, then?"

    Why not, instead of putting your Dad through this, you find yourself some testicular fortitude and own up to it yourself? Good heavens. My 17 year-old drives a car registered to his father. A few weeks ago, he came home from an errand and said "Pretty sure I got a speeding ticket over by school." Sure enough, a week later, a citation showed up in the mail and it was addressed to my husband.

    Kiddo paid the ticket instead of being stupid. $125 is a lot of money for a high school kid, and yet.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Quote Quoting LawResearcherMissy
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    When the judge asks you a question, you answer it truthfully. Lying to the judge is a good way to go to jail quickly.



    He can say he doesn't wish to testify, and the judge can tell him "Too bad, do it anyway." If the answer is "I don't know", the next question will be "Why wasn't the car reported stolen, then?"

    Why not, instead of putting your Dad through this, you find yourself some testicular fortitude and own up to it yourself? Good heavens. My 17 year-old drives a car registered to his father. A few weeks ago, he came home from an errand and said "Pretty sure I got a speeding ticket over by school." Sure enough, a week later, a citation showed up in the mail and it was addressed to my husband.

    Kiddo paid the ticket instead of being stupid. $125 is a lot of money for a high school kid, and yet.
    There's a big difference between a $125 ticket and a $500+ ticket. And part of what I am asking has yet to be answered. Can the judge require him to answer? Isn't that where the 5th amendment comes in?

    And if trying to get the ticket dismissed at arraignment is a bad solution, is there a better one? Like trial by written declaration? Or those red light camera ticket services where you pay a couple hundred bucks and they basically do your trial by written declaration for you?

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    There's a big difference between a $125 ticket and a $500+ ticket.
    Sure. It's the difference between doing 51 in a 40, and BLOWING A STOP LIGHT. You won't find any sympathy from me, pal. I was seriously injured by a driver who blew a stop light.

    Can the judge require him to answer?
    What part of "When the judge asks you a question, you answer truthfully" is not clicking here?

    Isn't that where the 5th amendment comes in?
    No. The 5th protects you from incriminating YOURSELF. It does not protect you from incriminating your irresponsible kid. If Dad says "It wasn't me", the judge absolutely can ask "Who was it, then?", and require an answer. Your fantasy of what the 5th covers is just that - a fantasy.

    You keep asking us to tell you that you're going to get out of your responsibility here. That is not an answer that will be forthcoming.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Fighting a Red Light Camera Ticket Not in My Name

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Yes I understand the court may ask him who the driver is, but is my dad required to answer that question?
    You tell me... If a judge asked you a question, and was expecting an answer... Is it OK to refuse to answer?

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Not answering a question is not lying.
    Not answering a question is failing to comply with the court's attempt to ascertain the truth.

    Example, journalists enjoy some protections from getting prosecuted for not revealing their source of information.... Still, have you not ever heard of a journalist getting tossed in jail for refusing to reveal his source to a judge?A red light camera ticket might not rise to the level of a massacre, and yet there are no laws protecting your Dad such as those that would protect a journalist!

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Can't he just say he doesn't wish to testify?
    If its a hard nosed judge who is going to ask, then your Dad saying "I do not wish to testify", is not going to help him much. For one, the arraignment is not the stage where one can choose to "testify" or "not testify"; testimony is presented at a "trial". If your Dad pleads "not guilty" and wishes to offer an explanation as to why he feels he is not guilty, then if he further provides that his explanation is "it is not me pictured in the car as being the driver at the time", only to stop right there, then potentially, and since his being the registered owner of the cart it follows that it is his responsibility to know who does or does not drive his car, the judge can potentially ask him "well who was driving?", if he chooses not to answer then he does not have to but that does not mean that a hard nosed judge must dismiss at that point. He can refuse to dismiss and instead, require that bail be posted before a trial date is scheduled!

    So potentially, it goes to trial and your Dad chooses not to testify. As in not say a word... Then he will get convicted. If he does choose to offer that "it is not me in the picture", and while a judge might let it go with that, a competent judge who is aware of his responsibility on the bench also knows that it is his responsibility as "the trier of fact" to try and establish what those facts are even if it means having to ask the defendant who was driving his car at the time or whether he knows who the driver was. When the defendant takes an oath to tell the truth at the start of a trial or at the start of the arraignment for that matter is not the same as taking an oath to be selective as to what he wants to testify to or what he doesn't!

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    And I was talking about calling the department and the trial because my neighbor said if we call the department, they'll search other members of the household right then and there and most likely figure out that it's me in the picture.
    God forbid that should happen!

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    The same if we go to trial, but it would be less likely to happen if it gets dismissed at arraignment.
    You keep saying "we" and yet you are the one who is in hiding. Instead of "we" you are sticking your Dad with having to deal with what should ultimately be your responsibility. Additionally, you keep bringing up your neighbor who is a retired cop but the fact that he is retired cop does not mean he worked for Victorville whether that be Victorvile PD or SBSD out of a Victorville substation and therefore the procedures he had been accustomed to may be different from those in use today.

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Is that the case?
    Whether the case gets dismissed at the arraignment, at the beginning or at the conclusion of a trial, a diligent police officer who is in charge of issuing these citations would be able to find out a case was dismissed and would make an attempt to find out why it was dismissed. Just like you cannot prevent a judge from asking, you cannot prevent an officer from seeking that an offense be properly prosecuted. For all intents and purposes none of the above will happen. Or that your Dad would not be asked anything other than to present his driver's license, but you're asking for a law that prohibits the judge from seeking the truth, and there are none, none that I am aware of at least, but also none that your cop neighbor is aware of apparently. You're also suggesting that the issuing officer could not reissue and are hoping that he would be prevented from as a procedural matter that would prevent or prohibit an officer from seeking that someone be penalized for a crime they committed, and you're not being realistic. You cannot prevent either acts from happening.

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Is getting the ticket dismissed at the arraignment the best option here?
    The best option for whom? For you? Trying to skate on your responsibility to face the consequences of your actions? Is that what your Dad has been telling you? So you're off looking for a way to convince him that legally a judge can't seek the truth?

    There are no "best options" here.

    Quote Quoting Ferrari353
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    Is there something better we can do to get out of this ticket?
    I assume ^^this "we" is referring to "YOU and only YOU", but I am still unclear on why it would be "best" or "better" that you be treated any differently than anyone else who runs a red light and gets cited for it?

    I think my replies have highlighted the potential events that can end up happening here. For all intents and purposes none of what I alluded to will happen. And if that is the case then you got lucky. As far as I know, you cannot plan, predict or control luck. You'll have to look somewhere else for someone to help you find a sure way on how to skate on what is only a consequence of your own actions.

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