Can You Be Charged With Theft if the Owners Have Their Property Back

[bulldogs01]

My question involves criminal law for the state of: I've rented a Ryder truck 26 foot box truck on demand November 14th 2013 I called the rider in my area to see about how to settle the balance if I needed the truck longer the ryder agent at the front desk told me that I could settle the balance ode for the vehicle when the driver returns the vehicle she also stated just to call f we would need the truck for a longer. Of time I called on Friday November 15th 2013 approximately around 4:15 p.m. The ryder office was closed at that time they are also closed Saturday and Sunday but back in on Monday at 8 o'clock a.m. I received a call Wednesday approximately 12 45 to noon time stating my credit card has been charged for $1050.00 from my bank following that call around 3 p.m. I received a call back from ryder stating my credit card has been declined which I told the back to decline because the agent stated we could pay when the truck was returned but now she changing the story and saying we need a downpayment which none of us were advised of. received a call from the account manager for this district stating they need payment for the truck which for the time needed would be $1050 and they needed it on that card because they have that card on file and could not run a new card I told him that I told the bank to decline the transaction because of what we were told over the phone and at pick up about just call in and tell us that you need the truck longer and we'll take care of it. this 1 back in forth for over a week until I made an agreement with the account manager that when I return to town I would settle the difference with him at a different location because we were lied to at our hometown location. he also stated to bypass the female at that location because she is the employee we were having problems with I return to town on December 2nd 2013 and the truck was returned December 1st approximately 11 15 at night the drivers which signed out the vehicle place the vehicle in the front lot of ryders location and left the keys inside the vehicle because he found the Dropbox rider call the police on December 2nd 2013 to report vehicle stolen I received a call from the police stating I was cruising around in a stolen vehicle he demanded the location of the vehicle which I told him I was out of town and un aware of the vehicles location I would have to contact the driver to find out he told me to contact the driver and find out where the vehicle was I called the driver in the driver stated the vehicle was dropped off the night before I then return the cops call where are the cops stated they were filing charges of theft of leased property and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle charges saft of lease property is a felony of the third degree and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle is a misdemeanor the second degree ahh I only paid for the vehicle and I am receiving the charges but there was an agreement made that when I return to town after the holidays I could make the payments of the amount set the officer filed the charges on December 3rd 2013 and placed a warrant for my arrest out he contacted me and told me things were going to get bad if he has to find me I stated that I would go to the judge and speak with the judge about bail for the situation. he gave me the option to come in on Wednesday December 4th at 3 p.m. Where he had court I went in on December 4th at 3 p.m. And the judge gave unsecured bail set at $25,000 my question is do the charges still apply to myself because I just paid for the vehicle or do they apply to the driver of the vehicle I paid a down payment of $230 at pick up.I told the rider representative that we could settle the payment on my return they stated the payment that was owed was 4500 dollars and they needed that and a full amount but would not drop charges against myself the rider representative where we pick the truck up also stated to use a business name / to create a business name 4 cheaper rates which we did in court when I went to set bail the judge asked myself if I was employed I told him no because I am NOT and the cop interrupted excuse me when I said no.do the charges for theft of the leased property and unauthorized use of a motor vehicle still apply to myself or what they apply to the driver also can the charges still stand f the vehicle was droped on December 1st outside of there gates on their property in the stone lot

Charges
18 3932 A Theft of Leased Property (F3)
18 3928 A Unauth use Motor/ Other Vehicles (M2)

[mmmagique]

Your entire story (unreadable as it was) is suspect. Yes, they can charge you with theft even if they eventually get their vehicle back. I suggest you figure out where it is, and get it back to them asap.

[bulldogs01]

They had the vehicle since the first but filed charges on the 3rd

[mmmagique]

*If* someone left the vehicle in front of the store with the keys in it, that was unacceptable. If it was stolen, that's on you, the person who accepted responsibility for the vehicle when you rented it.

But I'm not even sure the vehicle was ever left where your "driver" claims it was. As I said, your entire story is not only unintelligible, it is also unbelievable.

[Mephis]

Punctuation is our friend, please use it.

Yes, you can be charged with Theft of Leased Property.
You rented the vehicle on 11/14 and were advised if you needed it an extra day or two then to just contact them. You then failed to contact them in a timely manner to advise them you were needing the vehicle for a longer amount of time and then had your bank halt the payment on the credit card you used to secure said rental agreement. Doing so would or could be interpreted as an intent to defraud.

You were the one that signed the contract agreement. You were the contact and controlling factor in the disposition of the vehicle. So yes you can face charges.

Why did you not just call them on Monday 11/18 and tell them you were needing to extend the contract and why did you withhold payment for services you were obligated to pay.

[jk]

she also stated just to call f we would need the truck for a longer.

I received a call back from ryder stating my credit card has been declined which I told the back to decline because the agent stated we could pay when the truck was returned but now she changing the story

maybe you were never told of the additional deposit because you would have been told that when you called to inform them you needed the truck longer, which you failed to do.

I told him that I told the bank to decline the transaction because of what we were told over the phone and at pick up about just call in and tell us that you need the truck longer and we'll take care of it.

right...now when did you call them to let them know you needed the truck longer?

I only paid for the vehicle and I am receiving the charges

you CONTRACTED for the use of the vehicle. That makes you responsible for the disposition of the truck.

my question is do the charges still apply to myself because I just paid for the vehicle or do they apply to the driver of the vehicle

yes they apply to you. Ryder contracted with you, not the driver.

but to make this easy; did you call the police and report the unauthorized use? I'm betting not since everything you have stated shows the use was authorized by you.

also stated to use a business name / to create a business name 4 cheaper rates which we did in court when I went to set bail the judge asked myself if I was employed I told him no because I am NOT and the cop interrupted excuse me when I said no.

so, if you are not employed by this fake business, how can you legally represent the company in a business transaction? The web is getting pretty tangled.

as to the specific location not being open;

800-297-9337

o can the charges still stand f the vehicle was droped on December 1st outside of there gates on their property in the stone lot

apparently without settling the bill though, right?

Charges
18 3932 A Theft of Leased Property (F3)
18 3928 A Unauth use Motor/ Other Vehicles (M2)

§ 3932. Theft of leased property.
(a) Offense defined.--A person who obtains personal property
under an agreement for the lease or rental of the property is
guilty of theft if he intentionally deals with the property as
his own.
(b) Definition.--As used in this section, a person "deals
with the property as his own" if he sells, secretes, destroys,
converts to his own use or otherwise disposes of the property.
(c) Presumption.--A person shall be prima facie presumed to
have intent if he:
(1) signs the lease or rental agreement with a name
other than his own and fails to return the property within
the time specified in the agreement; or
(2) fails to return the property to its owner within
seven days after a written demand to return the property is
delivered by registered or certified mail to the person's
last known address.
(d) Exception.--This section shall not apply to secured
transactions as defined in Title 13 (relating to commercial
code).
(Aug. 8, 1977, P.L.184, No.49, eff. 90 days; Nov. 1, 1979,
P.L.255, No.86, eff. Jan. 1, 1980)

whoops. Wait a minute.

(c) Presumption.--A person shall be prima facie presumed to
have intent if he:
(1) signs the lease or rental agreement with a name
other than his own and fails to return the property within
the time specified in the agreement; or
(2) fails to return the property to its owner within
seven days after a written demand to return the property is
delivered by registered or certified mail to the person's
last known address.

did you sign the contract with YOUR actual name? If not, the state doesn't even have to prove intent. It's a given.

§ 3928. Unauthorized use of automobiles and other vehicles.
(a) Offense defined.--A person is guilty of a misdemeanor of the second degree if he operates the automobile, airplane, motorcycle, motorboat, or other motor-propelled vehicle of another without consent of the owner.
(b) Defense.--It is a defense to prosecution under this section that the actor reasonably believed that the owner would have consented to the operation had he known of it.

If this had been 1 day or the weekend you probably would not have this problem. Since you kept it 2 weeks, cancelled authorization on your credit card, and dumped the truck in the middle of the night, I don't see any defense to the unauthorized use and very little to the theft charge.

time for a lawyer.

[bulldogs01]

The bank automaticlly rejects charges over 500.00 not in my control

- - - Updated - - -

The amount they were chargeing was too high of an amount plus I was out of state and made an agreement to take payment up with account manager.

[jk]

The bank automaticlly rejects charges over 500.00 not in my control

Oh, so when you said this:

I received a call Wednesday approximately 12 45 to noon time stating my credit card has been charged for $1050.00 from my bank following that call around 3 p.m. I received a call back from ryder stating my credit card has been declined which I told the back to decline because the agent stated we could pay when the truck was returned b

You were just flat out lying?

Best of luck. Want me to find out how much time is possible for each of the offenses?

The amount they were chargeing was too high of an amount plus I was out of state and made an agreement to take payment up with account manager.

irrelevant

by doing what you did (severing the relationship they had with your card) you voided your contract. At that point you have stolen the truck.

[bulldogs01]

Vehicle is gps tracked so they seen it was there on the first.

[Disagreeable]

ROFLMAO Trying to argue the bank is responsible for making sure your payment is made will not benefit you in court. Arguing you had an alternative gentleman's agreement to your contract won't either.