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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    8

    Default Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign from an Officer's Position a Defense to a Ticket

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California, San Diego County

    I just got a ticket last week. The officer told me that I did not stop at the stop sign. I knew that I made a stop prior to the stop sign but I don't know what to do at that time as this is my first ticket in more than 17 years of driving. I chose to just cooperate and not argue with the officer.

    Anyway, I went back to the place where the stop sign is and park my car where the police officer was parked. If I am inside my car and look straight ahead, the stop sign line where I am supposed to stop is being obstructed by the car frame on the drivers side. When I look at the side window, the stop sign line is partially obstructed by cars parked on the lot where I entered. When I lean to the passenger side or if I park my car slightly angled towards the sign, I can see the stop sign line clearly.

    Another thing is that on the Ticket, he write the address of the location and said it is on parking lot 1 where the incident happened. The parking lot itself does not have a stop sign. The stop sign was located in the perimeter lot prior to me making a right to enter Parking lot 1. The officer did not stopped me when I passed him but turned around and followed me to where I parked. If he saw me violate the sign, should he stop me or signal me to stop right away when I passed him where his car was parked? He can stop me at that point as it is inside a parking lot and I am driving slow. I have a feeling that he just assumed that I broke the law because I looked and smiled at him when I drive passed him on the lot that is why he followed me and gave me a ticket. Someone may ask why look and smile at the officer. Well, I work in the location where I got the ticket and I always see that police officer in the area so I was just trying to be nice to him (stupid me).

    I'm debating if I should just pay up the ticket and take the school and get this over with or to fight it knowing that it will just be my claim that I stopped and the officer claim that he saw me run over the line. I'm thinking of doing this by Trial by declaration as going to the courthouse twice to plead not guilty and to go to trial will probably cost me the same amount of money taking off from work + time lost. If I do a TBD, will I still be able to get a chance for a traffic school in case the Judge sided with the officer which I heard happened most of the time? By the way, how much does a stop sign ticket cost?

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    You don't have any justification that your car's construction prevented you from seeing the stop sign or limit line. You're required to observe those things and take into account what you have to do to stop there.

    Who wrote this ticket. Was this on a UC campus or something? Typically police don't write tickets inside parking lots.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
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    18,340

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    The bottom line here is that the judge will believe the officer and not the thousands of drivers that claim they didn't do it or that the citation was defective or blah blah blah.

    TBDs are a joke.

    Take the traffic school if you are eligible.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    8

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    Hi Flyingron, Thanks for the quick reply. To clarify, I did not say that I did not see the stop sign to due to my car construction. I was saying that when I parked where the police was parked I saw that the car construction and the other cars parked in the lot is obstructing the view to the stop sign line from the police point of view. Can this be used as a defense?

    And yes the ticket was written in a community college campus by a campus police. They claim that they are authorized to write city tickets.

  5. #5
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    Sep 2010
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    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    You're changing your story now. You specifically said:

    . If I am inside my car and look straight ahead, the stop sign line where I am supposed to stop is being obstructed by the car frame on the drivers side. When I look at the side window, the stop sign line is partially obstructed by cars parked on the lot where I entered. When I lean to the passenger side or if I park my car slightly angled towards the sign, I can see the stop sign line clearly.


    But NEITHER argument will mean squat in the court. Further, the officer is going to testify he didn't see you stop at the limit line, and no amount of weaseling on your part will be viewed as a valid refuting of that testimony.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Florida
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    2,344

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    cggg, I understood perfectly what you described. When you assumed the position the police offer was in, sitting in his patrol car, you discovered that the view was obscured. If you really stopped, then I would take both still photos and video of other cars stopping from that vantage point to show what it looks like and then I would let a judge decide. If it is questionable whether an officer could discern whether a vehicle fully stopped or not from that vantage point, you might win. If it's pretty clear which cars stopped and which came to a "rolling stop" (i.e. didn't stop) then you'll lose. So, get your evidence and see what it will look like to a judge. That should tell you which direction to take on this. If it's clear that the officer could not see the line, that will help you if his contention is that you stopped too far forward. If he says you didn't stop at all, well, that will be more difficult.

  7. #7
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
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    125

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    Quote Quoting flyingron
    View Post
    You're changing your story now. You specifically said:

    . If I am inside my car and look straight ahead, the stop sign line where I am supposed to stop is being obstructed by the car frame on the drivers side. When I look at the side window, the stop sign line is partially obstructed by cars parked on the lot where I entered. When I lean to the passenger side or if I park my car slightly angled towards the sign, I can see the stop sign line clearly.


    But NEITHER argument will mean squat in the court. Further, the officer is going to testify he didn't see you stop at the limit line, and no amount of weaseling on your part will be viewed as a valid refuting of that testimony.
    I think what the OP is saying is not that he, himself, did not see the Stop sign as he was driving and approaching it but that when he later parked where the officer was parked and attempted to sight the Stop sign, from the officer's perspective, the vehicle's A-Pillar blocked the view.

    But then he said that if he leaned a little to the passenger side of the car, he could see just fine which, to me, negates any argument that the officer had no view.

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
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    101

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    Quote Quoting cggg
    View Post
    Hi Flyingron, To clarify, I did not say that I did not see the stop sign to due to my car construction. I was saying that when I parked where the police was parked I saw that the car construction and the other cars parked in the lot is obstructing the view to the stop sign line from the police point of view. Can this be used as a defense?
    Not to burst your bubble, but any idea if you and the ticketing officer are the same height? If s/he is taller than you, that would give them a whole different range of visibility than that of a shorter person. Also, differences between your car construction and the patrol car would also be a factor in visibility. I also have to say your pic shows a clear line of visibility to me from the patrol car to the stop point. You can draw a straight line between those 2 points without touching another vehicle or obstruction.

  9. #9
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
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    19,901

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    No your weaseling won't fly. He doesn't need to see the line, he knows where it is. He just needed to see your car roll through it. He'll testify to that, you'll be found guilty. Pay the fine and take the point or if you're eligible go to traffic school (costs more money but dodges the point).

  10. #10
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Posts
    8

    Default Re: Is Difficulty Seeing a Stop Sign a Defense to a Ticket

    It looks like I will lose if I fight it in court. Anyway, if I do a TBD and lose, will I still be able to take a traffic school if I pay the fine? The reason I asked is that I was told by some co-workers who where ticketed before that some of the campus police never bothered showing up in court. Not sure if this police is one of those but it looks to me that this one is pretty strict.

    If the Police did not fill-up his part of TBD, will the judge give me the win?

    If the Judges verdict is guilty and I requested a Trial de novo hoping that the police does not show. Will I be able to ask for a traffic school at this time or is that an automatic option for me when the Judge give me a guilty verdict on TBD?

    Thanks for all who reply.

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