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  1. #1
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    Default Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: CA

    I received a ticket for:
    • Disobeying Traffic Sign
    • Unsafe Lane Change


    Summary:
    Pulled over for going straight from a left-turn only lane. Street was recently paved without any lane markings.


    Full Scenario:
    I am the first car at a red light in the right-most lane in a double left-hand turn intersection. Orange County Sheriff is directly to my right in the only straight lane (See Figure 1).

    At this point, I am under the impression that I am in a straight lane and can legally and physically go straight (I say "physically" because there is no median directly across the intersection from me). Left turn light turns green, cars to my left go, and I stay - waiting for the straight green. Keep in mind, cars behind me do not honk during the full green turn cycle and Sheriff does not make an attempt to inform me that it was my turn to go.

    I make the "illegal" intersection crossing and the Sheriff pulls me over. First thing he says, "Did you know you almost took me out!?" In my head I'm thinking, "No, I went straight and you went straight. I didn't merge into your lane at all." (See Figure 1). The first citation on ticket was an Unsafe Lane Change. I didn't technically change any lanes...

    The next citation was for Disobeying the Traffic Sign. The roads were recently paved, with no lane markings on the pavement (See Figures 2-4). Left turn lanes are supposed to be marked with giant turn arrows are are delineated with solid white lines. However, there was signage on the light for the double left-hand turn. I didn't notice them, because I thought it was perfectly legal to go straight.

    MUTCD Chapter 3B-27: Pavement and Curb Markings
    Where through lanes approaching an intersection become mandatory turn lanes, lane-use arrow markings (see Figure 3B-24) shall be used and shall be accompanied by standard signs.

    CalTrans 6-02.14
    Signs or markings should be repeated in advance of mandatory turn lanes when necessary to prevent entrapment and to help motorists select the appropriate lane before reaching the end of the line of waiting vehicles


    Do I have a case?
    Can I plead not guilty through a written declaration?



    Figure 1


    Figure 2


    Figure 3


    Figure 4

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    I am the first car at a red light in the right-most lane in a double left-hand turn intersection.
    What do you mean "double left hand turn"?

    That should answer all your questions but I'll provide you with more reasoning as to why one if not both your violations were valid.

    While you were stopped at the light, look up at the white sign with black arrows and letters and tell me what you see?

    You see TWO mandatory turn arrows. Meaning the two left most lanes are dedicated left turn arrows i.e. this intersection is as you described it, is a "double left-hand turn intersection"... And since you were in the second lane from the left, that placed you in a mandatory left turn lane. And yet you went straight.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    2 left-hand turn lanes

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    2 left-hand turn lanes
    OK, and so since you recognized that you were one lane away from the left edge of the roadway, places you in the second of two turning lanes. Not only does the sign indicate where you should have ended up, but even with your claim that the roadway was not marked it is still easy to assume that any reasonably attentive driver would recognize the temporary markers -even with as short as they are- to mean lane dividers. Fact is, you recognized them as well... Unless you are going to argue that you simply ended up one lane away by some luck!

    Back to your first post:

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    At this point, I am under the impression that I am in a straight lane and can legally and physically go straight (I say "physically" because there is no median directly across the intersection from me).
    ^^This makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that there is no median on the other side of the intersection does not imply you can go straight from a lane that a sign in front of you represents as a left turn lane. In fact, when those lanes do get marked there still is not going to be a median on the other side of the intersection. But that does not make a left turn lane into an optional movement lane. It still leaves it as a mandatory left turn lane.

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    Left turn light turns green, cars to my left go, and I stay - waiting for the straight green. Keep in mind, cars behind me do not honk during the full green turn cycle and Sheriff does not make an attempt to inform me that it was my turn to go.
    Neither cars behind you honking nor the Sheriff not doing anything to inform you of anything are required as a way to inform you of responsibility to recognize where you are and what movements you should be making. That is and will always be YOUR duty!

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    The point I'm trying to make is that I was not properly informed of the turn lanes due to a lack of lane markings.
    Sure you were... You were most certainly "properly informed"... You knew you were in a double left turn intersection. You identified it as such... Maybe after the fact but as I said, a reasonably attentive driver would have recognized it as such. In fact, you mentioned cars behind you when the left red arrow turned green. Did any of them follow you by going straight when you did so? I suspect the answer is "no, none of them followed" and as such, those are perfectly good examples of reasonably attentive drivers.

    Still, to further provide you with sufficient basis that you were in fact properly notified, what code sections were you cited for?

    I realize that 22107 was likely cited as the code for illegal lane change, simply because you encroaching on the straightaway lane to your right after entering the intersection from the left turn lane, all while another car was in that lane makes your movement unsafe and therefore in violation of 22107.

    CVC 22107

    No person shall turn a vehicle from a direct course or move right or left upon a roadway until such movement can be made with reasonable safety and then only after the giving of an appropriate signal in the manner provided in this chapter in the event any other vehicle may be affected by the movement.

    The fact that you did not signal for the last 100 feet of your movement could have been another violation under 22108.

    CVC 22108

    Any signal of intention to turn right or left shall be given continuously during the last 100 feet traveled by the vehicle before turning.

    But that's a gimmie... The other violation which you described as:


    Quote Quoting DNG
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    The next citation was for Disobeying the Traffic Sign.
    Which could be cited under 21461 or under 22101(d)... Which one were you cited for?

    21461

    (a) It is unlawful for a driver of a vehicle to fail to obey a sign or signal defined as regulatory in the federal Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, or a Department of Transportation approved supplement to that manual of a regulatory nature erected or maintained to enhance traffic safety and operations or to indicate and carry out the provisions of this code or a local traffic ordinance or resolution adopted pursuant to a local traffic ordinance, or to fail to obey a device erected or maintained by lawful authority of a public body or official.

    The regulatory sign posted up on the traffic signal mast indicating a mandatory left turn from the lane you were in is sufficient notice of such requirement.

    If not 21461, and instead 22101(d) and even with the addition of a dedicated left turn lane or two left turn lanes for that matter, it still only requires one traffic control device to notify the driver of such mandatory movement!

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    The next citation was for Disobeying the Traffic Sign. The roads were recently paved, with no lane markings on the pavement (See Figures 2-4). Left turn lanes are supposed to be marked with giant turn arrows are are delineated with solid white lines. However, there was signage on the light for the double left-hand turn. I didn't notice them, because I thought it was perfectly legal to go straight.
    You'll note that the description you provided of your second violation indicated (underlined) "Disobeying the Traffic Sign". So whether you noiticed it or not, the sign was there, and that meets the requirement under the law as being "sufficient notice"...

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    MUTCD Chapter 3B-27: Pavement and Curb Markings
    Where through lanes approaching an intersection become mandatory turn lanes, lane-use arrow markings (see Figure 3B-24) shall be used and shall be accompanied by standard signs.

    CalTrans 6-02.14
    Signs or markings should be repeated in advance of mandatory turn lanes when necessary to prevent entrapment and to help motorists select the appropriate lane before reaching the end of the line of waiting vehicles
    The MUTCD is not the law nor is it a substitute for it. The MUTCD is simply a reference for traffic engineers describing the preferred methods for designing roadways, posting signs and marking roadways by using traffic control devices.

    From the MUTCD:

    The Standard, Guidance, Option, and Support material described in this edition of the MUTCD provide the transportation professional with the information needed to make appropriate decisions regarding the use of traffic control devices on streets, highways, and bikeways.

    Throughout this Manual the headings Standard, Guidance, Option, and Support are used to classify the nature of the text that follows. Figures and tables, including the notes contained therein, supplement the text and might constitute a Standard, Guidance, Option, or Support. The user needs to refer to the appropriate text to classify the nature of the figure, table, or note contained therein.

    The figures shown in the California MUTCD are typical or example applications of the traffic control devices to illustrate their use and manner. Criteria for position, location, and use of traffic control devices in the figures are furnished solely for the purpose of guidance, understanding and information, and are not a legal standard. Engineering judgment must be used to apply these guidelines to the typical or example applications, or adjust them to fit individual field site conditions. The California MUTCD is not intended to be a substitute for engineering knowledge, experience or judgment.


    And to follow that logic, engineering judgment is not intended to be a substitute for the laws that were enacted by the state legislature. So again, the MUTCD cannot dictate what is/isn't required above and beyond what the vehicle code is requiring!

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    Can I plead not guilty through a written declaration?
    You can plead however which way you want through whatever means you want to do so through... But it does not appear that you have any sort of legitimate excuse to fight anything here.

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    Thanks for the info, That Guy.

    CVC 22101d
    CVC 21658a

    It makes sense what you're saying - whether I noticed it or not, the sign was there. I understand that.

    But do I have no case (no leniency) at all because of recent construction? I'm usually very aware of these things and this has never happened to me before (irrelevant in the case). Usually, when rolling into a stop light, I can tell right away what lane I am in based on the striping on the road. Striping that was not marked at the time.

    If I have the pay the bail amount anyway, would I hurt to plea my case?

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    But do I have no case (no leniency) at all because of recent construction? I'm usually very aware of these things and this has never happened to me before (irrelevant in the case).
    The point of my long post was that the requirement to establish a valid mandate and one which every driver must obey was satisfied under the law... If you're willing to risk the chance that a judge might misconstrue your stating that you are usually attentive and yet this time you were about to "take out an officer" because you were inattentive... I am not sure how that will likely work in your favor!

    In other words, there is nothing in the code that implies any sort of leniency under the circumstances existing at the time. One sign indicating two left lanes are left turn lanes... Any driver must obey the direction of such a sign. By your same analogy which you posted following this line, you seem to indicate that you follow the direction of the lane you might find yourself in at the time... Well, in this case, you did not do so.

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    Usually, when rolling into a stop light, I can tell right away what lane I am in based on the striping on the road.
    And in this case, having found yourself in a left turn lane, and yet you continued straight contrary to the direction of the sign, does not fit within your claim that you usually let whatever sign happens to dictate the movement from your lane dictate which way you proceed.

    Conversely, rather than being able to tell what lane you are in based on the striping on the road, you should decide which direction you are headed and then decide which lane you should be in.

    In this case, you did the opposite. You found yourself in a turn lane and are trying to justify going straight from that lane.

    Still, I cannot dictate what every judge should feel. If you think you are justified in making such an argument, then by all means make it and hope the judge buys it. I think you would be taking a good risk especially when it is my understanding that -assuming both these violations were written on the same notice to appear- that a single traffic school program completion would take care of concealing both violations. But don't quote me on that, you'll have to check with the DMV for confirmation.

    Quote Quoting DNG
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    Striping that was not marked at the time.
    It is marked in your pictures... Is it not? Whether striping was or was not marked at the time is a subjective statement. I say it was sufficiently marked for a reasonably attentive driver to recognize his location as far as lanes are concerned. Not even the MUTCD could help you define proper striping... (Remember, not even actual MUTCD figures are to imply a regulation, only a preference)... But even if it could, you clearly realized that only one car width would fit to your left. Had you noticed the sign (which indicated a mandatory movement) like you should have, you could have easily deduced that you were in the second left turn lane.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    Quote Quoting Disagreeable
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    I get really torqued when people intentionally provide pictures that misrepresent road markers. You ignored the left turn arrow for your lane back by JoAnn fabrics AND you intentionally did not show a close up of the double left turn sign between the traffic lights.

    https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAg
    If you read the description, you would know that the roads were recently paved. There was no left turn arrow for my lane back by JoAnn fabrics.

    I didn't show a close up on the double left turn sign? What do you expect? I mentioned it in my description and you can see it in Figure 3.

    Way to be helpful...

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    What do you mean "double left hand turn"?

    That should answer all your questions but I'll provide you with more reasoning as to why one if not both your violations were valid.

    While you were stopped at the light, look up at the white sign with black arrows and letters and tell me what you see?

    You see TWO mandatory turn arrows. Meaning the two left most lanes are dedicated left turn arrows i.e. this intersection is as you described it, is a "double left-hand turn intersection"... And since you were in the second lane from the left, that placed you in a mandatory left turn lane. And yet you went straight.
    I understand that the sign was there and what the sign mean. When I was at the intersection, I did not pay attention to left turn arrows or signage, because at the time, I was under the impression that it was perfectly legal to go straight.

    The point I'm trying to make is that I was not properly informed of the turn lanes due to a lack of lane markings.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    I get really torqued when people intentionally provide pictures that misrepresent road markers. You ignored the left turn arrow for your lane back by JoAnn fabrics AND you intentionally did not show a close up of the double left turn sign between the traffic lights.

    https://maps.google.com/maps?client=...ed=0CAgQ_AUoAg

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Getting a Ticket when Roads Are Recently Paved with No Lane Markings

    None of your pictures show the arrow by Joann fabrics. Neither do they show the area where the next double arrow would be.

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