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  1. #1
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
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    1

    Default Used Car Dealership Can't Fix a Problem With the Car

    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: Illinois

    I recently purchased an used 2006 Chrysler 300 (close to 90k miles) from an used car dealership in Bridgeview on June 7, 2013. When I purchased the car and drove it off the lot, it was fine. During the ride, the service engine light came on. I took it to auto-zone on June 8, 2013, they diagnosed the problem as catalytic converter defective low bank 1 and low bank 2, along with sensor failures. I took it back to the dealer, they said they fixed the problem: the service engine light goes off. The next couple days passes, the service light comes back on. I took it back to auto-zone, they diagnosed the problem as catalytic converter defective low bank 1 and low bank 2. I took it back to the dealer, they claim they fixed it again. June 17th comes, the service light comes back on. I take it back to the dealership, they keep the car for 4 days, state they fixed it. June 21st comes, the service light comes back on. I took it back to the dealership, they keep the car for 8 more days. They state they fixed it. July 10th comes around, the service light comes back on. I call the dealership, they inform me to pay for a Chrysler dealership inspection and bring the car back and they will fix all of the problems that's listed. I take the car to a Chrysler dealership, they perform the inspection. A ton of things return from the inspection that deemed the car "unsafe to drive." I take it back to the dealership, they state that Chrysler is "over-exaggerating" the damages to the car. They refused to service the car. On July 13th, they state that they will perform the services but I will have to cover 40% of the charges. Paid 40%. They perform the services. July 31st comes around, the service engine light comes back on! Each time the service light came on was for the defective catalytic converters. They never replaced the catalytic converters, and I have documentation stating that I paid for services to replace the catalytic converters. What are my options legally?

    (I know it's a bit much but I have receipts for all auto-zone diagnostics, and mostly all receipts for work done on the car, I have all diagnostic reports from the Chrysler dealership, I have written/signed statement from used car dealership stating repairs are paid for that included the catalytic converters)

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    195

    Default Re: Used Car Dealership Can't Fix a Problem With the Car

    Quote Quoting Respectable
    View Post
    My question involves a consumer law issue in the State of: Illinois

    I recently purchased an used 2006 Chrysler 300 (close to 90k miles) from an used car dealership in Bridgeview on June 7, 2013. When I purchased the car and drove it off the lot, it was fine. During the ride, the service engine light came on. I took it to auto-zone on June 8, 2013, they diagnosed the problem as catalytic converter defective low bank 1 and low bank 2, along with sensor failures. I took it back to the dealer, they said they fixed the problem: the service engine light goes off. The next couple days passes, the service light comes back on. I took it back to auto-zone, they diagnosed the problem as catalytic converter defective low bank 1 and low bank 2. I took it back to the dealer, they claim they fixed it again. June 17th comes, the service light comes back on. I take it back to the dealership, they keep the car for 4 days, state they fixed it. June 21st comes, the service light comes back on. I took it back to the dealership, they keep the car for 8 more days. They state they fixed it. July 10th comes around, the service light comes back on. I call the dealership, they inform me to pay for a Chrysler dealership inspection and bring the car back and they will fix all of the problems that's listed. I take the car to a Chrysler dealership, they perform the inspection. A ton of things return from the inspection that deemed the car "unsafe to drive." I take it back to the dealership, they state that Chrysler is "over-exaggerating" the damages to the car. They refused to service the car. On July 13th, they state that they will perform the services but I will have to cover 40% of the charges. Paid 40%. They perform the services. July 31st comes around, the service engine light comes back on! Each time the service light came on was for the defective catalytic converters. They never replaced the catalytic converters, and I have documentation stating that I paid for services to replace the catalytic converters. What are my options legally?

    (I know it's a bit much but I have receipts for all auto-zone diagnostics, and mostly all receipts for work done on the car, I have all diagnostic reports from the Chrysler dealership, I have written/signed statement from used car dealership stating repairs are paid for that included the catalytic converters)
    Did the dealership technicians offer you a warranty of some sort for the catalytic converter replacement? Did the dealership technicians use their parts or customer parts? I will give you a set of options on what you should do to resolve this issue:

    (In case of a suspicion that the technicians provided and installed a bad catalytic converter or didn't do the work right or any work)

    Option 1: Go to the dealership and report the issue to them as soon as possible. Ask for the old catalytic converter and if management and technicians are willing to "redo" the job for free. If they are nice, submissive, and honoring to the warranty (if offered), they should "redo" the work for free to correct the issue. Skip this option if you know that the dealership does not offer service warranties of any kind.

    Option 2: In case the dealership is unable/unwilling to redo the work for free, ask for a refund for the prior work. Skip this option if you know that the dealership's service facility does not offer post-service refunds.

    Option 3: In case the dealership is unable/unwilling to correct the issue by redoing the work, unable/unwilling to provide you a refund, or unable/unwilling to provide any kind of mutually agreeable resolution; take the dealership's automotive service team to small claims court to sue for the amount of money "wasted" on the (negligent) repairs. You would have to show the court how the dealership automotive service team did not do the repair right to prevail.

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Used Car Dealership Can't Fix a Problem With the Car

    first, you need to understand that what you read is not a diagnosis. It is, for lack of getting into a long explanation; the "fault" the car's computer sees. I would have to guess it presented a PO420 code. That does not mean it has a bad cat. converter.


    this is what it would have actually said:



    PO420: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

    and for bank 2 it would be a PO430 code. Same description but bank 2 instead of bank 1.





    there can be a lot of issues that cause a PO420/PO430 code and the cat converter is about the last thing one would change to attempt to fix the problem./



    They never replaced the catalytic converters, and I have documentation stating that I paid for services to replace the catalytic converters.
    then you go and ask for your money back for that work and any other you can prove they did not perform.

  4. #4
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    195

    Default Re: Used Car Dealership Can't Fix a Problem With the Car

    Quote Quoting jk
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    first, you need to understand that what you read is not a diagnosis. It is, for lack of getting into a long explanation; the "fault" the car's computer sees. I would have to guess it presented a PO420 code. That does not mean it has a bad cat. converter.


    this is what it would have actually said:



    PO420: Catalyst System Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1)

    and for bank 2 it would be a PO430 code. Same description but bank 2 instead of bank 1.





    there can be a lot of issues that cause a PO420/PO430 code and the cat converter is about the last thing one would change to attempt to fix the problem./



    then you go and ask for your money back for that work and any other you can prove they did not perform.
    Aww man! I had that in mind too. I would laugh at anyone that plans to use that OBDI/OBDII code printout (with suggested remedies) as a diagnosis result for evidence in court. The OBD scanner (used at Auto Zone, Advance Auto Parts, O'reily, Pep Boys, etc.) doesn't tell what part needs to be replaced or adjusted. It tells you how well the emission system is operating. Automotive repair technicians/mechanics aren't obligated to diagnose anything in vehicles (that doesn't mean they shouldn't). They are just obligated to do whatever "allowed" work is requested by a customer. At seldom, a technician/mechanic would tell a customer, "Hey, this part is good so it doesn't need to be repaired or replaced. I just don't want you to waste your money for something unnecessary".

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Posts
    38,867

    Default Re: Used Car Dealership Can't Fix a Problem With the Car

    that is all any scanner provides. It basically tells you what a sensor is reading and with the PO420/PO430, there are so many issues that can cause that reading it is only the very beginning of an attempt to diagnose the issue.

    If you go here:

    http://www.obd-codes.com/p0420

    take a look at the section of causes. There are many possible causes and many of the causes have many possible causes. It is only part of the big picture of diagnosing an issue.

    don't get me wrong though. I think the OP is getting the shaft in the deal. I would suspect the selling dealer was doing little more than resetting the system so once it was driven enough for the computer to get a reading, it throws the light back on and OP is back where they were.

    and especially if OP paid to have the cat. converters replaced and they weren't, the repair shop is simply stealing from them.

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Dec 2012
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia, United States
    Posts
    195

    Default Re: Used Car Dealership Can't Fix a Problem With the Car

    Quote Quoting jk
    View Post

    and especially if OP paid to have the cat. converters replaced and they weren't, the repair shop is simply stealing from them.
    Yes, and that's why most people colloquially call car dealerships, "stealerships". Some dealerships find ways to "steal" money from customers.

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