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  1. #1
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    Default Why Do You Focus on the Law Instead of Dreaming Up Defenses

    This is a ticket defense forum, focusing primarily on whether the citing officer followed all applicable laws and procedures, and secondarily on whether the poster has any mitigating circumstances. If the former is not true, the latter is moot, yet most comments seem to be focused on the latter. That would lead me to an observation that this forum probably operates more often for the purpose of defending police.

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    This is a ticket defense forum, focusing primarily on whether the citing officer followed all applicable laws and procedures, and secondarily on whether the poster has any mitigating circumstances. If the former is not true, the latter is moot, yet most comments seem to be focused on the latter.
    Maybe most comments are focused on the latter because the OP provided nothing that shows the former is not true!

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    That would lead me to an observation that this forum probably operates more often for the purpose of defending police.
    Then your observations would seem to be a bit myopic. Police get bashed on these forums quite regularly. I have even had some unkind words regarding an officerís purported actions myselfÖwhen a poster describes behavior that deserves it. But, more often it is posters making accusations that they cannot support or simply displaying their ignorance and/or misplaced anger.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    This is a ticket defense forum, focusing primarily on whether the citing officer followed all applicable laws and procedures, and secondarily on whether the poster has any mitigating circumstances. If the former is not true, the latter is moot, yet most comments seem to be focused on the latter. That would lead me to an observation that this forum probably operates more often for the purpose of defending police.
    You would be very much incorrect as to the purpose of this forum. It is not hear to provide defenses to tickets. It is here to answer legal questions regarding legal situations. It just so happens that most of the posts tend to boil down to help me get out of this ticket, whether the ticket is deserved or not.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    This is a ticket defense forum, focusing primarily on whether the citing officer followed all applicable laws and procedures, and secondarily on whether the poster has any mitigating circumstances. If the former is not true, the latter is moot, yet most comments seem to be focused on the latter. That would lead me to an observation that this forum probably operates more often for the purpose of defending police.
    Not only are you missing the purpose and intent of this forum; it appears that you fail to realize what a traffic citation often means or what it is based upon, and mainly, you must not realize that the police aren't in any need for us to defend them, they do quite well on their own when they appear in court and that is yet another point that you and people who come here looking for help are not aware of.

    This is a legal forum. And in this particular sub-forum, the discussions are often about an act or an omission that was witnessed by a sworn police officer, who ended up making contact with the suspect, and ended up citing him for the alleged violation. More often than not, the stories we get here are twisted by the time we read them. And even if they are attempting to be forward and forthright, the entire story isn't likely to come out. You can deny it if you want and for as long as you want, but in this forum, the concept of "innocent until proven guilty" is merely a technicality; an idea that is bound to eventually self destruct as soon as the citing officer gets to the stand to testify. More often than not, this can be accomplished without the defendant doing a thing, or saying a word. And if you read enough threads you might realize that the more that is said, the greater the likelihood that the defendant will either incriminate himself, or he'll provide ample reason to discredit his version of events which will work to his disadvantage anyway.

    Would it have done this OP any good had we all gathered around, patted him on the back and said "there, there, it'll be alright... that was a bad cop and it'll all be alright" when in reality, he was in fact riding his bike, he was in fact riding it on the sidewalk, he was in fact witnessed by a sworn police officer and he was in fact cited by said officer! Sure, we can make him feel all warm and fuzzy inside but what good is warm and fuzzy now when he's bound to have to face the realities of the situation and those simply are: he has no chance

    Does it really make a difference if he had been riding on the sidewalk up Lexington Avenue Or down Park Avenue... Or on 37th street between 8th and 9th? No...

    If you have anything of value that will likely benefit the OP or help mitigate his circumstances any, then by all means help him out. And until you do, lay off the criticism because you're not in a position to judge... You ain't got it like that!

  5. #5
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    If you have anything of value that will likely benefit the OP or help mitigate his circumstances any, then by all means help him out. And until you do, lay off the criticism because you're not in a position to judge... You ain't got it like that!
    Maybe you didn’t notice that I previously DID help out the OP with information more specific to his situation than anything on this forum. Although flyingron answered his initial question, everyone else was insulting and unhelpful in my opinion. I doubt the OP will post here again and I can certainly understand why.

    People might not like that I posted links, but they contain much more complete information. To summarize, the majority of those bicycle/sidewalk summons are being thrown out because the officer wrote the wrong administrative code. So if that ends up being true in this poster’s case, it does not matter at all whether or not he committed the infraction. If he’s not so lucky there is still a better chance of pleading a sidewalk summons than other offenses.

    It’s also interesting to note that of 510,000 summonses last year in NYC for all offenses combined, 110,000 were deemed defective or dismissed for insufficient information. Riding on a sidewalk was the 3rd most common ticket—more common than speeding.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    Maybe you didnít notice that I previously DID help out the OP with information more specific to his situation than anything on this forum.
    Aaaaahhh... yes. You should give yourself an extended vacation. Because you definitely overworked yourself to accomplish that.

    Seriously though, you're only fooling yourself. the links you provided offer ZERO value. They do not answer the OP's question, nor do they add any value to what he already had, before he came here.

    The first link you posted is a magazine article... An opinion. It has zero legal meaning and it offers zero benefit. It is entertainment. The OP came here with one question (And I quote): Now I know that misspellings on tickets rarely will benefit the ticketed, but might there be an exception in this case? i assume you read the article, and rather than me wasting my time reading it, can you do me a favor and point to the statements in that article that answers that question for the OP.

    In fact, as far as questions and answers, the article didn't even answer its own question. The article is titled Does The NYPD Think Bikes Are More Dangerous Than Cars? And here is the best answer she could gather: I have no idea why the police have chosen to enforce this section so aggressively, other than it might be easy. Very informative indeed.

    The second link you provided is some sort of guide on how to handle the ticket... or is it a summons? Well, let's see, that is where the guide starts... With a comparison:

    Ticket vs. Summons:
    If you have been given a summons, you have to appear in court on the date specified. Here is what a summons looks like:


    Then you are supposed to click on the picture so you can familiarize yourself with what a summons looks like. Yet if you do click on the picture, and if you were to look at the top of the front (left image), you can clearly see that it is described IN RED as a TRAFFIC TICKET.

    You might note that this "guide" is simply the same information that is printed on the back of the ticket... I mean the summons... Or whatever that might be! So this second link actually provided the OP with information he already had. Again, zero value, ZERO benefit... And again, the OP came here with one question: Now I know that misspellings on tickets rarely will benefit the ticketed, but might there be an exception in this case?... Can you point to the portion of that guide where the OPs question was answered?

    That said, and if you add in the few statements you made which make it clear you
    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    I doubt the OP will post here again and I can certainly understand why.
    Why? Because he asked a question that he knew the answer to? Or was it a question that he should not have asked? Either way, for many of us, this became the break in the monotony of having to provide serious answers. We didn't mistreat him, he set himself up to be mistreated.

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    People might not like that I posted links, but they contain much more complete information. To summarize, the majority of those bicycle/sidewalk summons are being thrown out because the officer wrote the wrong administrative code. So if that ends up being true in this posterís case, it does not matter at all whether or not he committed the infraction. If heís not so lucky there is still a better chance of pleading a sidewalk summons than other offenses.

    Itís also interesting to note that of 510,000 summonses last year in NYC for all offenses combined, 110,000 were deemed defective or dismissed for insufficient information. Riding on a sidewalk was the 3rd most common ticketómore common than speeding, which caused 1000 times more deaths since 2009 than bicycles.
    You still have not answered the OP's question... But we can pretend that there is any value to the information... After all, it must all be factual, accurate and on point. And you believe it to be so because.... oh yeah, because you read it on the internet. And let's not forget that it came from an "unnamed source"... That makes it more legitimate!

    Keep up the good work... But seriously though, do yourself a favor and stop acting like you're the forum police.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    You still have not answered the OP's question... But we can pretend that there is any value to the information... After all, it must all be factual, accurate and on point. And you believe it to be so because.... oh yeah, because you read it on the internet. And let's not forget that it came from an "unnamed source"... That makes it more legitimate!

    Keep up the good work... But seriously though, do yourself a favor and stop acting like you're the forum police.
    If I appear to be policing the forum, it’s because the forum appears to be full of police already. You in particular seem to be treating this as a full time job, and I have to wonder why? You pointed out a common problem that people are too quick to believe what they read on the Internet. Well, the same applies to this forum. The notice at the bottom of this page is quite clear. All postings are “as is” opinions. Within reasonable limits I can say anything I want. The only real “police” are the moderators.

    My goal is to provide a somewhat different perspective and balance things out a bit. Personally I don’t believe in just answering the poster’s question. Flyingron already did that anyway and quite nicely I might add with just one line. I’ve done computer operating system support for the biggest software company, and it’s been my experience that callers almost never know what question to ask or what their problem really is. The last thing they want is to get blasted and if I did so I would have been fired on the spot.

    There are a few people on this forum that I especially admire because they ask questions and, if the OP cooperates they will assist in coming up with a plan of action to actually beat the ticket if possible, or if not possible to at least achieve the most favorable outcome. That’s all I was trying to do in this case--to give the poster some support and give him a shot, which I believe fulfils the highest purpose of this forum.

  8. #8
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    OP's question was clear. I received a ticket for breaking a law I broke. Can I get out of it based on this technicality. The answer is no, he cannot. It was also clearly conveyed. The purpose of the forum is NOT to assist people with breaking the law. Sometimes that involves a reality check.



    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    If I appear to be policing the forum, itís because the forum appears to be full of police already. You in particular seem to be treating this as a full time job, and I have to wonder why? You pointed out a common problem that people are too quick to believe what they read on the Internet. Well, the same applies to this forum. The notice at the bottom of this page is quite clear. All postings are ďas isĒ opinions. Within reasonable limits I can say anything I want. The only real ďpoliceĒ are the moderators.

    My goal is to provide a somewhat different perspective and balance things out a bit. Personally I donít believe in just answering the posterís question. Flyingron already did that anyway and quite nicely I might add with just one line. Iíve done computer operating system support for the biggest software company, and itís been my experience that callers almost never know what question to ask or what their problem really is. The last thing they want is to get blasted and if I did so I would have been fired on the spot.

    There are a few people on this forum that I especially admire because they ask questions and, if the OP cooperates they will assist in coming up with a plan of action to actually beat the ticket if possible, or if not possible to at least achieve the most favorable outcome. Thatís all I was trying to do in this case--to give the poster some support and give him a shot, which I believe fulfils the highest purpose of this forum.

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    You in particular seem to be treating this as a full time job, and I have to wonder why?
    You still don't get it. You're a troll, nothing more, nothing less... I'll offer you a few more minutes but then I'm done wasting my time on you.

    Wonder all you want... What is it to you what I do with my time or how I spend it? Most, if not all of the information that I post is on point, it can be verified and is meaningful and relevant, assuming you have the capacity to realize all of that. Just because you don't seem to grasp any of it, and whether I am here full time or double time, it isn't any of your business. If you have a problem with anything I have posted, bring it on. Let me know and I'll try to explain its meaning and purpose to you. In this case though, I might not have as much time!

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    My goal is to provide a somewhat different perspective and balance things out a bit.
    You haven't accomplished anything remotely close to your goal when you provided meaningless, incorrect and irrelevant information! You posted "crap"... And that is NOT the sort of balance that is needed here!

    Quote Quoting searcher99
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    There are a few people on this forum that I especially admire
    Good for them... For the rest of us, understand that posting useless unrelated information can more often than not be quite misleading. So you haven't done anyone any favors.

  10. #10
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    Default Re: Bicycle Ticket in Brooklyn

    Quote Quoting That Guy
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    I'll offer you a few more minutes but then I'm done wasting my time on you.
    Those are my sentiments as well. It’s obvious we have different points of view. Let’s just leave it at that.

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