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  1. #1

    Default The State Shouldn't Be Able to Require Driver's Licenses

    http://www.expertlaw.com/forums/showthread.php?t=152930

    I'm referring to this thread as it irritates me how people go off telling people that they are retarded blah blah blah. NO ONE in the USA is required to conform to any licencing, registering, laws, statutes, etc. People posting that crap obviously havent picked up a law dictionary in their life. The supreme court has stated:

    "The term 'motor vehicle' is different and broader that the word 'automobile'." City of Dayton v. Debrosse, 23 NE.2d 647, 650; 60 Ohio App. 232.
    “Where Rights secured by the Constitution are involved there can be no rule-making or legislation, which would abrogate them” Miranda v. Arizona (1966) 384 U.S. 436, 86 S. Ct. 1602, 16 L. Ed. 2d 694, 10 ALR 3rd 974 and 59 other ALR treatises .
    “The claim and exercise of a constitutional right can not be converted into a crime.” Miller v. U.S., 230 F 2d 486, 489.
    “There can be no sanction or penalty imposed upon one because of his exercise of constitutional Rights.” Sherar v. Cullen, 481 F. 945.
    “No state shall convert a liberty into a privilege, license it, and attach a fee to it.” Murdock v. Pennsylvania http://www.lawyerdude.8k.com/murdock.html 319 U.S. 262.
    “If the state converts a liberty into a privilege the citizen can engage in the right with impunity.” Shuttlesworth v. Birmingham http://www.lawyerdude.8m.com/5090.html 373 U.S. 262.
    “If you've relied on prior decisions of the Supreme Court you have a perfect defense for willfulness.” U.S. v. Bishop, 412 U.S. 346.


    What the SUPREME COURT SAYS is the law. No other court can change that unless through due process. Which hasnt been done. Yes, Ohio says motor vehicle is whatever they want to say it is but guess what, the Supreme court said what it is and they have no authority to override the Supreme courts ruling. BUT it is your job to ensure these public servants dont take what they feel or think is law and do as they please.

    Furthermore, NO ONE has to apply for a right, it is unalienable, god given and yours from day one. So go away trolls of misinformed people. "But DRIVING isnt a right", no, driving is not, traveling is. There are tons of other cases that people have fought and won on this very subject. For instance Charlie Sprinkle vs Ronald Ragen is another. The LEGAL definition of DRIVER is conducting commerce, transportation of persons or goods, or while employed. Which isnt what the common person does. They travel in their Automobile which we earn with our own sweat and blood at our job and we transport guests in this automobile. Learn the words, learn the truth or shut up and be silent. Here is some more to read trolls:

    "The use of the highway for the purpose of travel and transportation is not a mere privilege, but a common fundamental right of which the public and individuals cannot rightfully be deprived." Chicago Motor Coach v. Chicago, 169 NE 221.
    "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
    "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.
    "The right to travel is a well-established common right that does not owe its existence to the federal government. It is recognized by the courts as a natural right." Schactman v. Dulles 96 App DC 287, 225 F2d 938, at 941.

    And dont trust a Lawyer of any BAR association, do you really think they have your best interest in mind. Look up what the BAR really is.....

  2. #2
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
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    38,867

    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    Yes, traveling is a right. You can walk wherever you wish to walk. If you want to use a car in any of the 50 states, you will have to obtain a driver's license in one of the 50 states.

    If you care to publish your name and current address, I will be more than happy to make sure you have the opportunity to dazzle courts with your arguments while defending yourself against the tickets you will receive for "traveling" on public roadways in a motor vehicle without a license.

  3. #3

    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    my name is my username there bud, but no, i wont give you my address. I dont hide behind a fake username. and as the supreme court stated, "either by carriage or by automobile", disproves what you said. so please, troll along. The fact of the mater is if you present these things in court because the word "driver" is used so often, in commercials, by cops, etc, that it has become common place and we "think" it means anyone operating a car or motor vehicle when infact its an automobile, not for commerce purposes.... plain and simple. Many have done it, even with the court cases i present you proves it, so troll along. While you are at it, denounce your citizenship since you arent willing to uphold our/your rights as being.

  4. #4
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    Jan 2006
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    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    So, how has this defense worked for you so far?

    Twisting the SCOTUS' statements and taking them out of context does not prove your case. When you find somebody that wins a driving without a license ticket due to your claims, be sure to let us all know

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
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    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    You can travel by motor vehicle without any sort of permission as much as you would like.

    However if you wish to operate the machine yourself you need a license, otherwise you may hire a driver

  6. #6

    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    Dude, just look up those cases. Dayton vs Debrosse and Charlie Sprinkle vs Ronald Regan. done, case close. Both won in court. Charlie Sprinkle hasnt had a Licence since around his 30's and is old and grey now. Look it up, im not going to spoon feed you all the way to reality.

    Im not twisting or taking anything out of context. look them up. Words are defined for a reason.

  7. #7
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    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    You're going to have to be accurate with your citations. I find no SCOTUS case of sprinkle v regan

  8. #8
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    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    Quote Quoting darinschmidt
    View Post
    Dude, just look up those cases. Dayton vs Debrosse and Charlie Sprinkle vs Ronald Regan. done, case close. Both won in court. Charlie Sprinkle hasnt had a Licence since around his 30's and is old and grey now. Look it up, im not going to spoon feed you all the way to reality.
    How do you imagine that Charlie Sprinkle's loss in court and his failure to get a driver's license in any state constitutes a "win". Do you really need it explained that when you go to court raising idiotic claims against wholly inappropriate parties about your right to drive, lose on every count, and never again have a driver's license, it's a loss?

    You cite an Ohio case from the early years of the automobile, City of Dayton v. Debrosse, 23 NE.2d 647, 650; 60 Ohio App. 232 (1939), for the proposition that "The term 'motor vehicle' is different and broader that the word 'automobile'." For that you get the "No [feces] Sherlock" award of the day. Unfortunately for you, that statement provides no support for your cockamamie theories about driver's licenses. Unless you're driving a trolley car these days, somewhere in Ohio, what do think Debrosse does to help your argument?

  9. #9
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    Jul 2013
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    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    Quote Quoting darinschmidt
    View Post
    "The right of the citizen to travel upon the public highways and to transport his property thereon, either by carriage or by automobile, is not a mere privilege which a city may prohibit or permit at will, but a common law right which he has under the right to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness." Thompson v. Smith, 154 SE 579.
    "The right to travel is a part of the liberty of which the citizen cannot be deprived without due process of law under the Fifth Amendment." Kent v. Dulles, 357 US 116, 125.

    The emboldened part... I'm with you, it should be a right, it's required to maintain one's livelihood, and the way the laws are going, it's becoming all too easy to take away that right. But, as you quoted, the right can be taken away by due process of law. My gripe is how they seem to go after the drivers license for more and more "offenses" as time moves on. I know of a teen who just racked up a one year's worth of drivers license suspension due to truancy. He says, "it doesn't matter". But one day he will realize that it does matter. Kid not going to school, hey, let's suspend his drivers license! This will surely help him to become a better citizen.


  10. #10
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    Default Re: No Licence Needed

    The key, if you read the case law you cite, is under normal conditions. Proof of normal condition is held to be successful state licensing. That is why one states license is recognized in other states. Continue with your delusion if you wish.

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