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  1. #1

    Question Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California. I was given a ticket from an officer last night
    for the violation CVC 21453C (no camera there) and I see it is a failure to stop at red light violation. My actual
    violation, however, was after I stopped at the red light in a left turn lane, rather than wait until green to turn left -when I saw it was safe and there was no oncoming traffic I decided to go straight instead. The officer told me thats what he saw me do, and then gave me this ticket. As I did stop at the light, is this not incorrect as a ticket violation?
    Thank you for comments .
    JJ

  2. #2
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    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    Quote Quoting VC 21453. Circular Red or Red Arrow
    (a) A driver facing a steady circular red signal alone shall stop at a marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection or, if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication to proceed is shown, except as provided in subdivision (b).

    (b) Except when a sign is in place prohibiting a turn, a driver, after stopping as required by subdivision (a), facing a steady circular red signal, may turn right, or turn left from a one-way street onto a one-way street. A driver making that turn shall yield the right-of-way to pedestrians lawfully within an adjacent crosswalk and to any vehicle that has approached or is approaching so closely as to constitute an immediate hazard to the driver, and shall continue to yield the right-of-way to that vehicle until the driver can proceed with reasonable safety.


    (c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.


    (d) Unless otherwise directed by a pedestrian control signal as provided in Section 21456, a pedestrian facing a steady circular red or red arrow signal shall not enter the roadway.
    You are certainly free to argue to the court that you committed violations of VC 21453(a) and VC 22101, and suggest that the violation of VC 21543(C) be dismissed; the court and prosecutor may be happy to oblige you by dismissing and/or amending to the proper charges.

  3. #3
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    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    Unless you were on a one way street turning on to a one way street, you had to stop and stay stopped.

    Stop means stop until the light turns green.

    It doesn't mean stop temporarily and go while the light is still red.

    Proceeding on the red means you didn't stop.

    I think your argument will fail.

  4. #4
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    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    Quote Quoting joanna james
    View Post
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California. I was given a ticket from an officer last night
    for the violation CVC 21453C (no camera there) and I see it is a failure to stop at red light violation. My actual
    violation, however, was after I stopped at the red light in a left turn lane, rather than wait until green to turn left -when I saw it was safe and there was no oncoming traffic I decided to go straight instead. The officer told me thats what he saw me do, and then gave me this ticket. As I did stop at the light, is this not incorrect as a ticket violation?
    Thank you for comments .
    JJ
    I assume you mean you entered the intersection from the left turn lane at which time, the traffic signal was showing a red arrow for the left turn lane, and instead of turning left, within the intersection as directed by the arrow marking on the pavement and/or on the sign posted up on the signal mast, you merged right into the straightaway traffic lane and continued on...

    Two schools of thought, the one I subscribe to, says you violated the code section you were cited for by entering the intersection from the lane designated by the left turn marking/sign and you really have very little defense.

    The other school requires a review of the code section you were cited for which states:


    21453

    (c) A driver facing a steady red arrow signal shall not enter the intersection to make the movement indicated by the arrow and, unless entering the intersection to make a movement permitted by another signal, shall stop at a clearly marked limit line, but if none, before entering the crosswalk on the near side of the intersection, or if none, then before entering the intersection, and shall remain stopped until an indication permitting movement is shown.

    And as you can see from the short sentence I underlined, the claim is that it might imply that you would be allowed to make such movement, as in you would be allowed to be facing a left turn arrow, and while it is in its red phase, still be allowed to go forward through the straightaway lane.


    Problem with that interpretation is that it would also imply that it dilutes and dissipates the meaning, intent and force of either (a) the pavement marking (arrow painted on the street) showing a mandatory left turn from that lane or (b) the sign posted up on the signal mast indicating a mandatory left turn or both, (a) the pavement marking and (b) the sign, to mean nothing all while they are in fact regulatory signs that indicate a mandated action on behalf of the driver (this would be the 22101(d) violation that MrKnowitall mentioned up to).

    And so my rebuttal to the 2nd school idea is: it is clear that any driver who is in the straightaway lane, facing her/his own circular green/red, is also likely to be facing the "red/green" arrow signal intended for the left turn lane. And that the underlined provision is intended to allow such driver to proceed through the intersection if her/his circular light is showing a green indication all while the arrow signal is showing red. But it does not allow a driver in the left lane to enter the intersection to go straight when the red arrow is on.

    If you decide to argue this you don't include the rebuttal, only the portion in blue font. I cannot promise you it will work, in fact, I have never heard of it working, to be honest. But if you are desperate to try it then by all means, its about the only argument that anyone can come up with.

    Keep in mind a few things as you decide, one, going to a trial by declaration and or a trial requires you to post full bail for the citation... That is $490, you cannot make payments on that it must be paid in full otherwise you don't get a TBD or a trial date. Second, while you might get a fine reduction at the outset, the penalty for this violation becomes the mandatory full fine, meaning the court will keep your $490 and refund nothing to you. So there is a possible financial interest in pleading guilty at the outset as opposed to going to trial and ending up with a conviction. That is all aside from the fact that the court cannot guarantee you that the traffic school option -if you are eligible- will still be available after a TBD. Some judges may allow it, others don't!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    To clarify further -I was in a central left turn lane at a red traffic light. There were two lanes on
    the right side of me with a green light. It was late night with no traffic. I stopped at the red light
    and waited, and as the light was long, I decided to go straight on the green light. I believe the most
    legal action would have been to back up and move over to the lane where there was showing the
    green light and then go forward. As it was late night, I believed it was not safe to back up as if
    someone came quickly and didn't realize I was backing up, they'd run into me. I therefore, took the
    decision it was safer to go straight without backing up first. Do you think I have a case seeing that I did not turn left on the red light, I went on the green but from the left turn lane, due to my judgement it being safer. Thank you.

  6. #6

    Question I Did Not Turn at the Red Light from the Left Turn Lane, but Went Straight on Green

    I posted this earlier this week and am adding further info below to see if I have a case to contest or not.
    My question involves a traffic ticket from the state of: California. I was given a ticket from an officer last night
    for the violation CVC 21453C (no camera there) and I see it is a failure to stop at red light violation. My actual
    violation, however, was after I stopped at the red light in a left turn lane, rather than wait until green to turn left -when I saw it was safe and there was no oncoming traffic I decided to go straight instead. The officer told me thats what he saw me do, and then gave me this ticket. As I did stop at the light, is this not incorrect as a ticket violation?
    Thank you for comments .
    JJ

    To clarify further -I was in a central left turn lane at a red traffic light. There were two lanes on the right side of me with a green light. It was late night with no traffic. I stopped at the red light and waited, and as the light was long, I decided to go straight on the green light. I believe the most legal action would have been to back up and move over to the lane on the right of me showing the green light and then go forward. As it was late night, I believed it was not safe to back up as if someone came quickly and didn't realize I was backing up, they'd run into me. I therefore, took the decision it was safer to go straight without backing up first. Do you think I have a case seeing that I did not turn left on the red light, I went on the green but from the left turn lane, due to my judgement it being safer. Thank you. JJ

  7. #7
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    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    Quote Quoting joanna james
    View Post
    To clarify further -I was in a central left turn lane at a red traffic light. There were two lanes on
    the right side of me with a green light. It was late night with no traffic. I stopped at the red light
    and waited, and as the light was long, I decided to go straight on the green light. I believe the most
    legal action would have been to back up and move over to the lane where there was showing the
    green light and then go forward. As it was late night, I believed it was not safe to back up as if
    someone came quickly and didn't realize I was backing up, they'd run into me. I therefore, took the
    decision it was safer to go straight without backing up first. Do you think I have a case seeing that I did not turn left on the red light, I went on the green but from the left turn lane, due to my judgement it being safer. Thank you.
    Red lights, mandatory left turn lanes signs, and pavement markings, speed limits... and any and all traffic regulations that do not provide for exceptions at night or when there is no traffic are valid and enforceable 24 hours a day, 7 days a week. Furthermore, while backing up while you are at a traffic light is not safe, nor is it legal, it does not make your entry into the intersection any less illegal or any more safe for that matter.

    If the light was taking too long indicating a malfunction, then you might be able to have that malfunction documented through the public agency that maintains or is responsible for that particular intersection. Contact them and ask if they have done any repairs or have had any complaints about that light taking too long. If they do respond with information about repairs or resets due to the problem you indicated, that is your excuse, take a copy of whatever written response you get from that agency and see if the judge will allow it... Otherwise, I simply don't see how any judge would allow for the violation and just because the light was taking long, does not mean you can run through the intersection at will.

  8. #8

    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    Thank you for the latest reply. I have now set up a 'hearing reservation' or arraignment -PC.
    I am confused, is this my court date or only a preliminary hearing? If it is my court date, I wish
    to contest the ticket, due to the fact I did not intentionally go on a red light, but followed the
    green light of the next lane. My contestation is that my infraction should be 'failure to change lanes' ie: to the lane with the green light. I would never intentionally go on a red. Should I plead in this case, not guilty in order to state my case? I have an excellent driving record, without a ticket for many years. Would I still be able to go to traffic school and do I have to pay for the whole ticket before this hearing? I'm a bit confused. Is the officer required to show up? Thanks again for clarification. I've never chosen to go to court before on a ticket,and now don't know if I made the right choice. JJ

  9. #9
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    Default Re: Failure to Stop at a Red Light, CVC 21453(C)

    Quote Quoting joanna james
    View Post
    Thank you for the latest reply. I have now set up a 'hearing reservation' or arraignment -PC.
    I am confused, is this my court date or only a preliminary hearing? If it is my court date, I wish
    to contest the ticket, due to the fact I did not intentionally go on a red light, but followed the
    green light of the next lane. My contestation is that my infraction should be 'failure to change lanes' ie: to the lane with the green light. I would never intentionally go on a red. Should I plead in this case, not guilty in order to state my case? I have an excellent driving record, without a ticket for many years. Would I still be able to go to traffic school and do I have to pay for the whole ticket before this hearing? I'm a bit confused. Is the officer required to show up? Thanks again for clarification. I've never chosen to go to court before on a ticket,and now don't know if I made the right choice. JJ
    This is only an infraction and so you do not get a preliminary hearing. Your first court appearance is the arraignment. This is when the court will read the charge to you and ask you how do you plead. You would be eligible for traffic school and the judge may offer you a fine reduction if you plead guilty. The officer will not be at the arraignment, if you plead not guilty and request a trial, then the officer will receive a subpoena from the court ordering him to appear on such and such a date when your trial is scheduled.

    If you choose to plead not guilty and go to a trial by declaration or a court trial, you must post bail for the full amount of the fine and the judge is not likely to feel inclined to reducing your fine after a trial. Also, traffic school may or may not be offered to you after a trial and it becomes up to the discretion of the judge.

    Quote Quoting joanna james
    View Post
    If it is my court date, I wish
    to contest the ticket, due to the fact I did not intentionally go on a red light, but followed the
    green light of the next lane.
    "intent" is not a required element that the prosecution must prove for a traffic violation. Only whether or not you entered the intersection from a position marked for a specific movement where the signal for such movement was in its red phase. You can try the argument I posted up top but I offer no guarantees that it will work. In fact, I would not try it myself simply because I don't believe it represents a viable option.

    And you cannot contest a violation by saying "I didn't commit that violation, I committed this one"... The officer cited you for one violation, and your defense must address whether you committed the several elements prohibited by that law or omitted those mandated by it. So your only escape out of this one is to provide evidence that can rebut the officer's testimony that you ran the red light. That's not going to be an easy task in fact, its virtually impossible to do especially since its not like you ran the light as it changed to red, nope, you ran it while it was well into the red phase/cycle.

    Quote Quoting joanna james
    View Post
    I've never chosen to go to court before on a ticket,and now don't know if I made the right choice. JJ
    You still have either option, either fight it and more than likely lose or plead guilty hope for a fine reduction and be able to ensure your ability to take traffic school, to avoid the conviction showing on your record.

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